Author Topic: Afterburner for RC  (Read 1839 times)

Offline Shuffler

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Re: Afterburner for RC
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2009, 04:21:37 PM »
Have you figured out the specific materials and run calculations yet? Also are you looking at formed and fabricated or machined.

If you have autocad drawings I'd like to take a look at them if you don't mind. Sure sounds interesting. My email is p38lightning@gmail.com.
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Offline fudgums

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Re: Afterburner for RC
« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2009, 05:28:41 PM »
I can see it today.....

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Offline Sol75

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Re: Afterburner for RC
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2009, 10:21:38 PM »
I will be sending the drawings to those of you interested.  I may have put the cart before the horse on some things though.  I need some help, before i can have anything "built".  I will be formulating a list of items I need to know before beginning fabrication or anything, and post it here.  Maybe with everyones help I can get this thing up and running, SAFELY. 

Sol
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Offline eagl

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Re: Afterburner for RC
« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2009, 10:36:09 PM »
When you started the thread, I went over in my mind what goes into a modern afterburning engine to make it work reasonably seamlessly for the pilot...  Variable bypass for cooling and flow control, variable nozzle area to control pressure and EGT, flame holder and injector design, ignitors, light-off detectors that automatically cut burner fuel supply if the thing doesn't light off right away or if the burner blows out, etc etc...  I figure you ought to be able to make it function with just a tube, flame holder, injectors, and igniters, but it won't run right and you'll have to be very concerned with temps and what it does to the engine.  To make a simple model turbine burner, you'll probably end up doing a LOT of static ground testing (with and without forced airflow to simulate flight conditions) just to keep the thing from blowing up or melting inflight.  Buying one that's already been tweaked is probably a better idea.

Ironically, the more complex you make the system, the less testing you'll need because you'd be able to adjust the various parts on the fly.  Have bypass airflow automatically increase when the ignitors are running.  Have fuel flow tied to igniter operation.  Have igniters run on a timing system where they only operate for 2 or 3 seconds if a light-off is not detected, and cut it all off at 20-30 seconds if there is a good light-off.  Use at least a two-step variable nozzle, closed down for normal operation and opened up for burner operation.  Or tie nozzle area to EGT.  Point being that a simple design with very few adjustments will be reliable but will take a hell of a lot of manual testing and tweaking to get to run right, while a very complex system could work pretty well with little operator input.

Again, I'd probably just buy one that someone else had already tested.  Reliable full-scale afterburners took decades to perfect and only became truly reliable with the advent of full-authority digital engine control units.  Even the F-15Cs in use at Tyndall AFB for training have a pretty high burner blow-out rate with the older engine control units, while an F-15E can do a tailslide with the pilot running the throttle from idle to burner and back, without the engine quitting.  It's far more complex but much more reliable.
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Offline SKYGUNS

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Re: Afterburner for RC
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2009, 12:03:44 AM »
just be careful with air intake and heat iv seen, both in real life and online were somebody at the field has something too close to the engine, (like a receiver covered in foam, only to find out the foam got fuel on it somehow) or when you may have goten a foreign object in the intake (like a pebble or a screw), and there engine in flight or taxying spews sparks or catches ablaze and damn that stuff is more flammable than it seems.

i have a question though,

how does afterburn work, all i know is that it make it go faster..

Offline Sol75

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Re: Afterburner for RC
« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2009, 12:17:50 AM »
Eagl,

Thanks for the input, I have been doing Turbine RC for about 4 years now, however, I am YET to see a functional afterburner, until the recent post in this thread.  My thought was to create one of the 1st.  Perhaps it is more complex for me to attempt, but, I would still like to make the attempt, IF it can be done safely.  Ground testing is fine for me... and as for FADEC, our RC turbines already run on FADEC believe it or not.  I would jsut need to find a way to adapt it for AB usage (if possible).  Not sure how, perhaps I can see if the manufacturer of my turbine might be of aid. 

I've always been fascinated by advancing the hobby/sport i love, I just completed a prototype testbed for a full VTOL and conventional transitionable V22 osprey.  the testbed is UGLY as heck, but it works!  Next is to build a scale model and put the system in that.

Afterburner is something I want to pursue after that is completed.... i did the plans for the tubes and such, but that swhy I brought the idea here... I dont know a lot aside from the physical layout of the AB... thus why I am soliciting input!

Sol
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Offline eagl

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Re: Afterburner for RC
« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2009, 07:03:10 AM »
Well then, if you want it to be different than that other one, give it a variable exhaust nozzle so you can run it for more than 20 sec :)
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Offline Kazaa

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Re: Afterburner for RC
« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2009, 09:47:52 AM »
Mach 1 RC plane, sounds like fun. :rofl



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Offline WilldCrd

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Re: Afterburner for RC
« Reply #23 on: March 25, 2009, 11:29:06 AM »
Mach 1 RC plane, sounds like fun. :rofl

lol I can se it now, Sol gets the first FAA fine for making a sonic BOOM with a RC plane.

Wonder if the AF has trie putting AB's on any of their UCAV test models? If ya think about it all they are is bigger and WAY more expensive RC toys, just more complex and can make things go boom
Crap now I gotta redo my cool sig.....crap!!! I cant remeber how to do it all !!!!!

Offline sntslilhlpr6601

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Re: Afterburner for RC
« Reply #24 on: March 25, 2009, 12:06:59 PM »

http://www.moddedmustangs.com/forums/clubhouse/108903-r-c-model-f-16-w-afterburner.html   with VIDEOS!

That f-16 isn't a real afterburner. It has led lights and water injection to simulate the look of an afterburner (and does it quite well), but its not a real flame.

Cool stuff, though. Those turbines are impressive.

Offline eagl

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Re: Afterburner for RC
« Reply #25 on: March 25, 2009, 09:50:18 PM »
Wonder if the AF has trie putting AB's on any of their UCAV test models? If ya think about it all they are is bigger and WAY more expensive RC toys, just more complex and can make things go boom

I think the general concensus on UCAVs at this point is to rely on low observability, not speed.  So the engines have engines and exhaust ducting that reduces radar and thermal signature at the expense of power and efficiency.  In other words, no AB on most (maybe all) UCAVs so far.

Look at the back end of the F-22 and compare it to the F-35...  The JSF gives up a LOT of rear-aspect stealth and IR signature in the name of lower costs.
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Offline hlbly

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Re: Afterburner for RC
« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2009, 07:57:26 AM »
Jesus please film this stuff ! I bought a couple 35 dollar toy EPP P-38's got rid of stock 6 Volt 150 MaH nimhs . Replaced them with 7.4 720 Mah Lipos  . Me and the 7 year old boy fly the crap out of these things every chance we get . I am brand new to this hobby . I just picked up a Park Zone RTF F4u Park flyer . It will stay in its box until the weather straightens up here in Oregon . Still need to pick out a trainer to destroy first as it looks like I will be doing this on my own . No local RC clubs that are active . Except for cars . Spend that kind of money on a toy what don't fly . I will be patiently waiting results on this , I will live vicariously thru all you guys care to share . My little story is to show my enginering skills level hence the need for films and photos <G>