I've hit a wall...

[Qrsu]

I feel pretty stupid in posting this. But there is one thing that has really agitated me over the last few months. I feel as though I've come a long way in terms of how I fly but even when I outfly someone it ends up the same way. I miss my shot!

When it comes to shooting, I'm terrible. I don't know what it is but for some reason I can rarely get into an engagement and come out with a kill unless I've gone through 90% of my cannon rounds. I fly 109s all the time - I fly the F in the Midwar almost exclusively and if I go into the LW I'm either in the G-2 or K-4. I find myself able to kill opponents with a snapshot in the K-4 more than I can kill them with a tracking shot while flying a plane with better gun ballistics.

I've looked at various writeups that explain how to approach a shot, leading the target, convergence settings, relaxing G loads before shooting etc... I just can't seem to get out of my shooting slump. I know it's a matter of practice but I find that if I ever get the chance to shoot at a maneuvering target, I miss so bad and lose the opportunity I had to win the fight that within the next few turns I've lost it, he turns around on me and scores a direct hit. I can cope with this once in a while, but when it goes on for a few engagements in a row I get to the point of no return and I just have to walk away from the game... nothing learned.

Just wondering if anyone else HAD this problem before and how they went about working on it? I watch films regularly and I ENVY you guys who seem to score killing blows every time you pull the trigger. I find this is about the hardest thing that I've tried to learn in my time flying this game.

Appreciate any advice I can get. 

[PFactorDave]

Well, I'm by no stretch of the imagination a good shot really.  But just today, I turned the tracers off for the first time.

I've already noticed that I'm shooting less often.  I'm not taking those longer low percentage shots quite as much.  I'm finding that I am holding fire until I have a much larger target to shoot at.

I don't know if this will help you at all, but I think it is going to help my overall gunnery.

Just a thought.

[Ghosth]

First off the early war German cannons are IMO the hardest guns in the game to master.
Low ROF, poor ballistics, and at least in my opinion hard to keep on track for a good killing shot.

Maybe its time for a change, force yourself to go back to basics, relearn how to shoot.

Instead of flying one of the harder planes in the set, jump into something thats easier to fly and kill in.

Confidence can be huge, without it nothing works, you die, lose more confidence, slump even worse.
It becomes a self defeating feedback loop. You have to break the chain.

Fly something that is easier to get some kills in, get a couple, get out, land them.
Get that boost that jumps you up and gets you eager to go do it again.

Midwar la5, spit 9, are very good rides with good guns.
Late war Spit 8, N1k, Yak9u are great confidence builders.

I agree with PFactorDave, if you've been flying tracers on, try them for a week off.
Give yourself a half hour in the TA with the lead computing sight to get a good idea of what the right lead looks like.
Then go dive in and shoot till you start hitting and getting kills.

[DamnedRen]

Hmmm, lotsa things might effect your shooting. However, everyone has an off day so don't get too frustrated. Here's a few things to think about. Opps, modified to say I agree with with Ghosth's advice.

1) Distance versus convergence. How close are you getting to your target before firing and is your convergence setting at the same distance as the target you are shooting? For instance, you can close to 200 but have convergence set to 400 you just might be shooting over him. Alternatively, if you have your convergence set at 200 but can only close to 400 then you may be shooting under his belly.

2) Distance to the target. Accuracy goes up the closer you get to him before shooting. At 200 yards easily see and can align for a shoot.
Boelke (Dicta Boelcke) says "Fire only at close range, and only when your opponent is properly in your sights".
I think it might have been Adolf Galland who also said, "close until the enemy fills your windscreen, then get closer before shooting".
While that may be cutting it close within the game it says a lot.   Warning: a shot on a guys 6 at 100 yards may result in you running into his blown apart plane. This may damage you past your ability to fly the plane home.

3) Angle off the target. Is he flying absolutely directly away from you? If so, he is showing you his smallest cross section and that may be a difficult target. Some of the easiest shots are when he break and shows you his plane from nose to tail.

4) Training Arena (TA). Go in there ask for someone to be your target. If I'm there ask me. Hit ctrl-tab. This will bring up lead compute sights. Then hit the tab key until you highlight me.  A pair of plus's (++) will show up by me when you get your nose pointed at me. Those plus's are the bullet impact point. Shoot at me when the plus's are on me and note your nose position in relationship to me. Get used o what the sight picture looks like. You will find your normal shot is actually lagging behind my plane some. You will also find if you pull a little more lead you will hit me, which the plus's will show you.

5) Lag. There is always a little lag in the game. Many times when you think you should have pulled the trigger you are actually late and miss.

Hope this helps.

Ren
Aces High Training Corps

 

[dkff49]

all very good posts in here, but the one thing that has helped me with my gunnery is to fly the YAK9U this forces you to be a little pickier about your shots since yuou have less ammo to shoot with and the ballistics are better than the 109 series are as well. This will also help your confidence since the guns are center mounted they will cause more of an impact with each successful hit and you will se results from your attempts to control that trigger finger.

good luck

[Anaxogoras]

all very good posts in here, but the one thing that has helped me with my gunnery is to fly the YAK9U this forces you to be a little pickier about your shots since yuou have less ammo to shoot with and the ballistics are better than the 109 series are as well. This will also help your confidence since the guns are center mounted they will cause more of an impact with each successful hit and you will se results from your attempts to control that trigger finger.

good luck

The Yak 50 cals have better ballistics than the MG 131, but the Shvak is about equal to the MG151.

For my part, shooting is something I do pretty well, flying is only average.  My best gunnery happens when I see multiple things at the same time, i.e. my target, my gunsight, and the target's trajectory.  Put those 3 things together and you have a killing shot.

My worst gunnery happens when I'm thinking about how to do it and criticize myself when I miss.

[Lusche]

all very good posts in here, but the one thing that has helped me with my gunnery is to fly the YAK9U this forces you to be a little pickier about your shots since yuou have less ammo to shoot with and the ballistics are better than the 109 series are as well.

Ballistically, the 20mm MG 151/20 gun used in the 109's is quite similar to the 20mm SHVAK the Yak 9U is sporting.
MG 151/20: 20x82 / 183g (HE) / 720-800 m/s
SHVAK: 20x99R / 183g / 750-790 m/s

for comparison:
Hisp MK II: 20x110 / 257g / 860 m/s

[dkff49]

Ballistically, the 20mm MG 151/20 gun used in the 109's is quite similar to the 20mm SHVAK the Yak 9U is sporting.
MG 151/20: 20x82 / 183g (HE) / 720-800 m/s
SHVAK: 20x99R / 183g / 750-790 m/s

for comparison:
Hisp MK II: 20x110 / 257g / 860 m/s

i go for this but they do not seem so to me in game anyway, but you guys definitely have more experience than i.

either way though i still suggest using the yak9u as a good way to tighten up your gunnery as it still forces you be a little pickier about you shots. it helps me out when i get little out of control with my trigger finger


i am starting to think you guys are picking on me. 

[Marshal]

Qrsu, I of course do not know what kind of stick you are using, but the biggest thing that has helped my gunnery out was to get rid of the twisty stick. When I switched to CH gear my hit % went up immediatley. I no longer have the nose bounce problem which kept me from landing shots on my opponent.
 

[StokesAk]

Goto the offline training and put the arena setting for 10 ammomult and shoot the hell out of the Ai's helped me aim a tater.

[Dm6]

Go out with the intetion of using all your ammo on first kill......... Hold the trigger down before you think you need to and just hold it down...... Now you will start to get a good idea of leading the target.  As your timming improves you will need less and less ammo....


If your missing that much your just not understanding when you really need to pull the trigger..... I had a hard time till some one told me to shoot "blind".... if a plane is manuvering it will require lead to hit most aircraft in the game... To hit requires you to shoot when you visually can not see the other plane..................

Fly the plane you would normally fly......


I dissagree with the using the yak.... You need to find out HOW your missing first. taking a plane with little ammo will only improve your aim if you can already hit the target.

YOu need to be willing to waste a lot of ammo to find out what is going on...

<S>  enjoy

[AWwrgwy]

I disagree with "spraying" to train.  I would think it would cause more bad habits than fix them.  I improved my shooting flying a Yak solely based on becoming more patient before shooting.  I stopped taking the shot from 600 yards out and greater (so much  ).

I think the greatest help is to film and go back and watch where you are missing.  I suppose spraying a lot would help here.  Another thing, watch other's films and see where they are shooting and how they are leading.

Another great help is go to the TA with the lead computing X enabled and see where you should be aiming.  Ask someone if you can shoot at them or just chase some hapless noob and don't shoot.


wrongway

[Qrsu]

Thanks for the responses guys. Got an abundance of good advice already and plan on trying all of these out. One concern I have is getting out of the 109 and flying another type of plane.

It took me a little while to find my "niche" plane and while I can't shoot, I feel it's a universal issue as I can't hit anything in a P-51D or Spitfire either.  
So while I want to get better at shooting in general... I really want to be more accurate with the 109.

I will try turning off my tracers for sure - I used to have them off and the only reason I turned them back on was to use them as a way to clear a squaddie's six or to coax someone extending away into turning.

Gonna be flying around in the TA for a few days where my mistakes won't translate into frustrating deaths and just keep at it... Thanks a lot guys.  

[The Fugitive]

I was toying around for ever in the 4% range and nothing I could do would get me any better. Then I hooked up with Ghosth in the TA for awhile and he stuck me in that stinking D3 he loves so much. By slowing things down in the TA it was easier to see where to aim and get hits. Ghosth also suggested I warm up with one of the training mission before I jumped into the arenas. Both have helped me a lot. I still miss shots I think I was dead on for, but I am making more than I use to. My hit percentage now flirts with 7. I know if I had more time to play....and practice, I could push that close to 10.

[Qrsu]

Here's a prime example of my woeful shot. This was a few weeks ago. From watching the film, I can see a lot of missed opportunities and poor judgment on my part. This happens constantly - thankfully in this instance I came away alive somehow.

Using TrackIR so no views saved.

Miss, miss and missed again!

I'm off to the TA.