how do you beat the luftberry?

[shiv]

I don't think anyone who made the switch and gave it time is ever going to advocate switching back.  Myself, turned it off two months ago, turned it back on two months ago, then turned it off and finally accepted i was going to spin out a lot as I learned to fly without it. 

Took a few weeks but now I'm listening to the horn and the buffeting and can tell how much room I have so I rarely get in trouble because of it.

I would never go back.

[morfiend]

The stall limiter is degrading you controls by close to 15%

 Can you afford to give that much up??

 As others said,"take the time and learn to fly without it"

 I personally have the stall buzzer and buffet sounds turned off,I feel they are a limiter of sorts too.When the sound off it's natural to back off abit,I dont hear them so I dont back off!

 Although you do tend to loose the odd plane that way....

[caldera]

Alright, alright. I'll turn off the stall limiter. As if I didn't auger enough already. Now I suppose you're all going to tell me to turn off combat trim and tracers too.   

BTW Lusche, would you happen to have a chart showing turn performance with and without the stall limiter? I would like to see just how much it really helps.

[Lusche]

Alright, alright. I'll turn off the stall limiter. As if I didn't auger enough already. Now I suppose you're all going to tell me to turn off combat trim and tracers too.   

Hehe, not me.. though depending on you plane trimming manually at least occasionally does help or can be even mandatory. I fly with CT on 90% of my time, but I have it (and the trim tabs) mapped to my stick.. it's necessary when flying 109s or F4U's for example.

BTW Lusche, would you happen to have a chart showing turn performance with and without the stall limiter? I would like to see just how much it really helps.

Sorry, I dont have such a thing. But trust us - it's really worth taking it off. Often I can easly tell when I'm fighting against a opponent with SL still enabled...

[doleboy]

it's necessary when flying 109s or F4U's for example.

I'm intrigued, please elucidate.

[PFactorDave]

I'm intrigued, please elucidate.

I'm sure it has something to do with the fact that Combat Trim doesn't properly take into account that the flaps are out.  So, dropping flaps really makes your trim go kerflewy unless you trim manually.  And those aircraft make more use of flaps then many others.

Something along that line anyway.

[Lusche]

I'm intrigued, please elucidate.

109 elevator controls get really heavy when going fast, for example when trying to follow a pony diving down to the deck. Without manual trim you might (and many will ) auger in such a situation.

In a F4U, it's like PFactor said - When dropping flaps you plane will be easier controllable without CT. With CT you will have to fight against your plane to prevent your nose going up.

[Murdr]

I have to admit that I only browsed the thread, but a few comments come to mind.

*One, chopping throttle in a luftberry situation  is a no-no.  In sustained turns, your biggest enemy is lack of thrust, because if you are sustaining a high AoA, you are buring all of your thrust energy with drag.  Slowing down kills your rate of turn.

*Slowing down does not automatically reduce your turn radius when you're in sustained turns.  To the contrary, your radius deteriorates.

Note the turn radius scale denoted by the black diagonal lines.  At corner velocity, the 109G at 240 mph can pull a radius of about 640 ft.  Down at sustained turn speed, it's turn radius is close to 700 ft.  The exception is if you are slowing down to deploy flaps.  This changes your foil shape, and therefore changes your turning capibilities.  However, with that said, depending on the airframe, it is likely that slowing down to deploy flaps will also deteriorate your rate of turn.

*Turn radius will not always determine the outcome of a fight.  Especially when it comes to a luftberry scenario.  The plane that can travel around a 360 faster, can beat a plane turning a smaller circle. 

[Eagler]

imo
CT is for cruising around and b&z
manual trim is for t&b

stall limiter is for rookies & retards - expect to lose the majority of your t&b's if you enable it

[Mustaine]

I actually have a similar question

I don't see an answer yet on how to escape once you have been suckered into a luftberry, with an FM2 you should hang, but what about a poor turning plane getting sucked in, like a 190 VS a spit?

is there an escape method?

[caldera]

[quote author=Eagler link=topic=262028.msg3256292#msg3256292 date=1238791630

stall limiter is for rookies & retards - expect to lose the majority of your t&b's if you enable it
[/quote]

Excuse me, Your Snootiness. I was doing all right being a retard. Disabled the stall limiter and flew into the DA horde and stalled out or lost control on 30+ flights. (Tried the MA but it was either fight the green horde or hang out at 2k right off an enemy field and run out of gas because nobody ups.And there were only 6 people in the TA, so I didn't bother) I would out maneuver someone and instant loss of control. I actually think it turned better with the limiter on. Before disabling it, I never went into a wing rocking stall without any warning. No buzzer, just BAM - shudder and loss of control. I don't know how to even find the limit since there is no warning. This sucks.

[PFactorDave]

[quote author=Eagler link=topic=262028.msg3256292#msg3256292 date=1238791630

stall limiter is for rookies & retards - expect to lose the majority of your t&b's if you enable it


Excuse me, Your Snootiness. I was doing all right being a retard. Disabled the stall limiter and flew into the DA horde and stalled out or lost control on 30+ flights. (Tried the MA but it was either fight the green horde or hang out at 2k right off an enemy field and run out of gas because nobody ups.And there were only 6 people in the TA, so I didn't bother) I would out maneuver someone and instant loss of control. I actually think it turned better with the limiter on. Before disabling it, I never went into a wing rocking stall without any warning. No buzzer, just BAM - shudder and loss of control. I don't know how to even find the limit since there is no warning. This sucks.

You might want to take a look at your stick scaling.  If you're stalling out that hard without warning, you must be pulling waaay to hard on the stick and/or your elevator axis is too aggressively sensitive.

There's a good thread that discusses Ak-Ak's stick scaling that's worth a look if you haven't already.  Probably worth a second look now that you're taking a shot at no stall limiter.

Keep in mind that the Stall Limiter has been allowing you to fly with a pretty heavy hand.  Flying without it will teach you to fly with more finesse and in the end will make you a much better pilot.

[Anaxogoras]

I actually have a similar question

I don't see an answer yet on how to escape once you have been suckered into a luftberry, with an FM2 you should hang, but what about a poor turning plane getting sucked in, like a 190 VS a spit?

is there an escape method?

enter enter enter

[Mar]

I actually have a similar question

I don't see an answer yet on how to escape once you have been suckered into a luftberry, with an FM2 you should hang, but what about a poor turning plane getting sucked in, like a 190 VS a spit?

is there an escape method?

There actually is, but remember the earlier you do it the better.

While in the circle gently and quickly ease off your turning. Try to get the balance of accelerating and turning away from his nose. Basically you want to have him turn as much as possible while you're accelerating away.

[The Fugitive]

I use little high yo-yos. Say two or three per circle. nose up a few degrees for a third of your circle, then pull the nose down quicker into the circle. Picture an incline ramp going up, then a strait drop of at the end. It seems to me to free up the plane I'm flying a bit more, and also seems to add angles for me.