Question for all the people who call the spitfire 16 a noob plane.

[MachFly]

This isn't a game to a lot of us.

It's a simulation of real WWII life.

Huh?  When did I say an unexperienced pilot is hard to shoot down in a spitfire?

never, when did I say that you said that an unexperienced pilot is hard to shoot down in a spit? this is what I said:

Your saying that if an experienced pilot fly's the spitfire it will be extremely hard to shoot him down.[/size]

LA7 is a different kind of easy mode if it is flown properly, actually if its 1v1 I think the LA7 would win against a Spit16 if the spit missed its chance on the merge because after that the LA will win the E fight

you kidding me? Spitfire is the best at conserving energy.

[SlapShot]

The spit16 is "dweeby" because it allows you to blunder your way thru the hardest parts of dogfighting, against someone who's doing everything right in almost anything in the rest of the planeset.

Would this only be true if the 2 opponents (1 in a Spit 16) started the fight on a level playing field.

What if the Spit 16s opponent had the higher ground and all the advantages and the Spit 16 driver worked the fight to gain the upper hand and score the kill ... would the Spit 16 driver still be considered "dweeby" and not deserve a <<S>> ?

[MachFly]

What if the Spit 16s opponent had the higher ground and all the advantages and the Spit 16 driver worked the fight to gain the upper hand and score the kill ... would the Spit 16 driver still be considered "dweeby" and not deserve a <<S>> ?

good point   

[Masherbrum]

The Spitfire is better in all respects from the La7 except for speed. Really, since HTC changed it's low speed handling characteristics, the La's have become much more interesting aircraft.

In AH1, I'd land between 8-10 kills a hop (no vultches or picks) in an La7.    I've done the same in AH2.   I've never noticed a single difference in "low speed handling".   I'll often get the La7 down to almost to 80mph and not have a problem.  

I'd choose the La7 over a Spixteen anyday and the Spixteen is a good plane.  

[Larry]

  I love it when others think that they have the right to tell others how to play the game. As I said before pay my bill and fly what you want me to 

Please oh please tell me where I'm telling you or others how to play in that quote. How about this, YOU pay my bill each month and I wont type my opinions on these boards like you and everyone else do. You don't agree with me? Fine, you have that right, but don't try to spin my post into something its not.


IMO flying a Spit16 just so you can get more kills and make people think you're good is like a MLB player using a T-ball stand so he can have a perfect batting average.

[moot]

Would this only be true if the 2 opponents (1 in a Spit 16) started the fight on a level playing field.

What if the Spit 16s opponent had the higher ground and all the advantages and the Spit 16 driver worked the fight to gain the upper hand and score the kill ... would the Spit 16 driver still be considered "dweeby" and not deserve a <<S>> ?

No and he would. But that's true for any plane. The spit16 is still as dweeby as you can get because you have to give it those overwhelming odds to really earn a victory. You don't really have to "work" otherwise.
I'm not saying anything about what kind of people spit fliers are, or that anyone has to agree with me or change what they fly, or that the spitfire shouldn't appeal to them, etc.

[Crash Orange]

The spit16 is still as dweeby as you can get because you have to give it those overwhelming odds to really earn a victory. You don't really have to "work" otherwise.

Oh, come on. If that's true why doesn't it have a 3:1 or better k/d ratio? 

And don't say "because n00bs fly it" because if what you say is true, if nothing is a challenge for anyone in a XVI except overwhelming numerical odds, newbies flying the XVI should consistently be able to beat veterans flying other planes. If better pilots flying other planes can usually beat worse pilots flying the XVI, then it stands to reason that the only way one can consistently get kills in the XVI - like in any other plane - is by being the better pilot. (Or possibly by vulching, picking, HOing, etc., but no one has offered any reason why those would be any easier or more common in a XVI than in any other plane.)

Let's run a little experiment. Fly nothing but the XVI for a week and see if you can double your k/d ratio. I'll fly no XVIs or perked planes for a week and see if mine is cut in half. Any stakes you care to put up. We'll be on the honor system as to not drastically altering our strategic behavior (i.e., only fighting with vastly superior numbers when we didn't do that before, etc.)

The most you can say with any credibility is that the XVI gives a slight edge and sometimes gives pilots a chance to recover from mistakes that would kill them in another aircraft.

[SlapShot]

No and he would. But that's true for any plane. The spit16 is still as dweeby as you can get because you have to give it those overwhelming odds to really earn a victory. You don't really have to "work" otherwise.
I'm not saying anything about what kind of people spit fliers are, or that anyone has to agree with me or change what they fly, or that the spitfire shouldn't appeal to them, etc.

Moot ... not trying to poke you in the eye nor start a pissin' match over this, but how would this fair on the "dweeby" meter.

Your "cruising" along in an F6F at 10K and inbound are 2 110s at about 8K ... you in on the 110s and absolutely spank the snot out of the 110s, because they really are no match for the F6F in that scenario ... would the 110 pilots be within their rights to claim "dweebyness" under those circumstances ? ... the F6F pilot really doesn't have to work hard at all to quickly dispatch the 110s ... the abilities of the F6F compared to the 110s basically only required the F6F pilot to push his stick around and pull the trigger.

My point is ... "dweebyness" is situational, and can apply to any sortie, and any of the various planes involved in a myriad of conflicts that could result due to the diversity of planes that are available.

The "Spit" (and now it's the Spit 16 - was the Spit 9 previously) is the red-headed step child of all "dweebishness" due to the fact that "noobs" are using them to be somewhat competitive (or at least that is what I have been told). So the moniker of "dweeby" is universally throw at anyone who flies a Spit regardless of the "situation" ... it's simply that they were in a Spit and forget about the "situation".

[Shuffler]

Oh, come on. If that's true why doesn't it have a 3:1 or better k/d ratio? 

And don't say "because n00bs fly it" because if what you say is true, if nothing is a challenge for anyone in a XVI except overwhelming numerical odds, newbies flying the XVI should consistently be able to beat veterans flying other planes. If better pilots flying other planes can usually beat worse pilots flying the XVI, then it stands to reason that the only way one can consistently get kills in the XVI - like in any other plane - is by being the better pilot. (Or possibly by vulching, picking, HOing, etc., but no one has offered any reason why those would be any easier or more common in a XVI than in any other plane.)

Let's run a little experiment. Fly nothing but the XVI for a week and see if you can double your k/d ratio. I'll fly no XVIs or perked planes for a week and see if mine is cut in half. Any stakes you care to put up. We'll be on the honor system as to not drastically altering our strategic behavior (i.e., only fighting with vastly superior numbers when we didn't do that before, etc.)

The most you can say with any credibility is that the XVI gives a slight edge and sometimes gives pilots a chance to recover from mistakes that would kill them in another aircraft.

K/D is really a poor way to judge an aircrafts abilities. Like the P-38L it is not flown by many folks who can take advantage of it's abilities. A lot of new folks fly the Spit because it is a more forgiving plane. With the 38L there are a lot of folks that fly it because of it's JABO application. Once the ords are dropped they are at a loss of how to fly it in any engagement.

All planes are affected one way or another by these same issues as far as K/D. Usually there are a hand full of folks in each plane set that make the bulk of the kills in it.

I joke about the spits being very easy to fly. In reality they were a great bird. But there is no denying that in the game they are extremely forgiving.

OK I'll step aside and go back to just reading.............

[Slate]

It's a simulation



  Hitech will get angry if you call his GAME a Simulation.

[caldera]

The "dweeby" comes from veterans flying the 16, not the newcomers. The 16 makes an "ok" pilot seem good and a good pilot seem great. Fly it if you want but don't expect people to fawn over your uberness for beating them in one.

[SlapShot]

The "dweeby" comes from veterans flying the 16, not the newcomers. The 16 makes an "ok" pilot seem good and a good pilot seem great. Fly it if you want but don't expect people to fawn over your uberness for beating them in one.

I beg to differ ... most people in this game that feel the need to place that moniker upon people (on 200 or on this BBS) really wouldn't know a vet if they tripped over one.

Also, it is my experience that the term "dweeb", in the context of the Spit, is used regardless if the person is a vet or not ... it's "in" to call people dweebs that fly the Spit ... and it's usually used by people that fly "manly men" planes ... 

[moot]

Slap, no offense taken.  The two 110s sound like they don't know how to work together.  It should be a good match unless you caught them flat-out NOE with no room for error.  It wouldn't really be dweeby because the combination of turning, amount of ammo, huge firepower and rate of fire means they just need an average opportunity to at least disable you.  And the F6 can't really run away unless it keeps them under its heel.  The F6 just isn't so easy to fly to ever be the greater factor than the pilot in a fight. It doesn't earn "dweeby" in at least the majority of cases. You actually have to make an effort to make it work.
I'm not convinced.  I don't think dweebiness is situational. No other plane thrives so well on furballing while demanding so little of the pilot.  It's sure that "dweeb" gains a bandwagon effect, but that's just a case of any "good cause" having some fool supporting it.  It doesn't void the fact that it really is dweeby often enough.

Now, I'm not out to convince anyone that the spit is something you should feel guilty for flying. Have at it.. Fly what you like and like what you fly. I just don't see it as anything but a crutch though.

The most you can say with any credibility is that the XVI gives a slight edge and sometimes gives pilots a chance to recover from mistakes that would kill them in another aircraft.

That's pretty much says it all, as far as your objectivity goes. 
The XVI doesn't have a great K/D because people who fly it fly it that bad.  And/or they don't care about dying.

newbies flying the XVI should consistently be able to beat veterans flying other planes.

They do.

if nothing is a challenge for anyone in a XVI except overwhelming numerical odds,

Not what I said. Everything else being equal is the way I was putting it.

I was gonna just stop there but.. Did you actually say

Let's run a little experiment. Fly nothing but the XVI for a week and see if you can double your k/d ratio.

First, I don't trust you to be objective, so your end of it (your K/D variance) isn't interesting.  It's not even a proper setup, there's too many uncontrolled variables.  But I can say I've flown the 16 and I can dodge pretty much anything.. I can easily double my K/D and definitely my K/T, and most likely up my hit%, compared to flying the Ta152 which I know pretty well.  But my previous K/D would have to be from a "control" sample, and one week is too little a sample. And then we'd have to show films of the whole thing to really proof the validity of the results and that's just not worth it in any way I can imagine.   The XVI is as dweeby as any other in the planeset. If you can't see that, it's your problem. Good luck.

[caldera]

I beg to differ ... most people in this game that feel the need to place that moniker upon people (on 200 or on this BBS) really wouldn't know a vet if they tripped over one.

Also, it is my experience that the term "dweeb", in the context of the Spit, is used regardless if the person is a vet or not ... it's "in" to call people dweebs that fly the Spit ... and it's usually used by people that fly "manly men" planes ... 

Perhaps you're right, I wouldn't know a vet if i saw one. That's because I'm too busy getting ganged by Spits in my "manly" P-40. 

[Steve]

The "dweeby" comes from veterans flying the 16, not the newcomers. The 16 makes an "ok" pilot seem good and a good pilot seem great. Fly it if you want but don't expect people to fawn over your uberness for beating them in one.

No offense intended but the people who have trouble beating a spixteen need the practice anyway.