Question for all the people who call the spitfire 16 a noob plane.

[Ack-Ack]

The "dweeby" comes from veterans flying the 16, not the newcomers. The 16 makes an "ok" pilot seem good and a good pilot seem great. Fly it if you want but don't expect people to fawn over your uberness for beating them in one.

More like the 'dweeby' comes from those that insist experienced players shouldn't fly the Spitfire.


ack-ack

[caldera]

No offense intended but the people who have trouble beating a spixteen need the practice anyway.

None taken, but you assume too much. I really don't have trouble 1 vs 1 against the average 16 driver.  But it seldom remains 1 vs 1 for long.

[Steve]

None taken, but you assume too much. I really don't have trouble 1 vs 1 against the average 16 driver.  But it seldom remains 1 vs 1 for long.

No, you assume too much. I didn't mention you were having trouble and I didn't say anything about 1v1.  I said the people having trouble beating the spixteen need the practice.

The spixteen gives the noobs a chance to compete. This seems to be a good enough reason to keep them unperked.

FWIW, pilots being equal, the p40 vs spixteen matchup is a tough one for the p40 driver, IMHO

[Krusty]

FWIW, pilots being equal, the p40 vs spixteen matchup is a tough one for the p40 driver, IMHO

Its 50mph slower across the board, accelerates twice as slowly as the spit8/16 do, climbs well under 1500+ feet per minute less than either spit, and only has 230 rounds per gun (around 15 seconds of firing time), and turns significantly worse than either spit with or without flaps.

[Crash Orange]

You're right, it's the pilot, not the plane, and my mouth wrote a check my [behind] can't cash.

Fixed.

Thank you for playing.  

[Steve]

Its 50mph slower across the board, accelerates twice as slowly as the spit8/16 do, climbs well under 1500+ feet per minute less than either spit, and only has 230 rounds per gun (around 15 seconds of firing time), and turns significantly worse than either spit with or without flaps.

I guess that's why it's a tough matchup.   

[caldera]

More like the 'dweeby' comes from those that insist experienced players shouldn't fly the Spitfire.


ack-ack

I haven't seen anyone insist anybody fly anything.

[caldera]

No, you assume too much. I didn't mention you were having trouble and I didn't say anything about 1v1.  I said the people having trouble beating the spixteen need the practice.

The spixteen gives the noobs a chance to compete. This seems to be a good enough reason to keep them unperked.

FWIW, pilots being equal, the p40 vs spixteen matchup is a tough one for the p40 driver, IMHO

Being that you quoted me when you said  "those people need practice", it sure seemed like an inference (albeit, a vague one) to me.  Had you just replied instead of quoting, I wouldn't have assumed too much. 

[sethipus]

I haven't seen anyone insist anybody fly anything.

Hence the "dweeb" title.  What we can't insist on, we can stigmatize.  It's called peer pressure.

I won't call a newb a dweeb for flying the Spit 16, in fact I recommend the plane sometimes when new pilots ask what they should fly.

That doesn't extend to HOing, however.  I will call anyone a dweeb who blatantly HOs, whether they're new or not.

[mechanic]

A plane is a plane.

[Krusty]

That's why we've spent trillions developing and building the F-22 raptor, and the EU has billions on the Eurofighter, eh?

A plane is not a plane. A pilot can only fly as well as his plane performs. Good pilots know their limitations and fly within them. Great pilots only engage and fight when their limitations don't come into play. Having a plane with no limitations makes the same pilot (same skills) multiple times more effective than a plane WITH limitations.

Would you rather drive a railroad spike with a dimestore claw hammer, or a 20lb sledge? Given the same person swinging, one has a lore more capabilities to lend to the user's skill.

[Steve]

Being that you quoted me when you said  "those people need practice", it sure seemed like an inference (albeit, a vague one) to me.  Had you just replied instead of quoting, I wouldn't have assumed too much. 

Nah, it was a general statement to those claiming it is uber. The spixteen is not an unbalancer in the MA. In fact, I think it's the opposite. It's a "balancer"  because it helps level the playing field a little bit for newer players.

I really don't have trouble 1 vs 1 against the average 16 driver.  But it seldom remains 1 vs 1 for long.

They've been beating up on you the last 3 tours. You touched on it though.  With a p40, it may be hard to kill quickly, meaning you are often going to be dealing with multiple bad guys.

If you are regularly beating 16's 1v1 in your p40, you  are surely doing something right.        

[Saurdaukar]

Not a silly question at all ... I have seen all sorts of dweebery and on many different levels over the past 7 years but have never seen any particular type of dweebery that I could associate with any particular "type" of plane.

I use to fly the Spit V exclusively and was just wondering if I had ever flown my Spit in a "dweeby" manner as opposed to how I might be flying my FM2 in a "dweeby" manner ... I have got to know so that I can correct myself if I am being "dweeby".

Flying the Spit V absolves you of any responsibility by default since that aircraft is not the subject of discussion.

My point is ... "dweebyness" is situational, and can apply to any sortie, and any of the various planes involved in a myriad of conflicts that could result due to the diversity of planes that are available.

As I stated to you, "You know dweebery when you see it."  Can you associate it with aircraft aside from the 16?  Of course.

That said, I am perfectly comfortable stating that the overwhelming majority of the dweeby behavior in the MA is performed by 16 drivers.

Ill take you on a visual journey through the virtual skies of Aces High if it'll help:

You see two baddies ahead and below.  You have every conceivable advantage except surprise.  The pair consists of a 109K4 and a Spit16.  You dive to bounce them.

As you pass through about 350MPH, far exceeding their level flight speed, and approach 2,000 meters distance, closing rapidly, each opponent chooses his or her ideal counter to avoid damage and improve their position.

One of them reduces throttle, banks 90 degrees and pulls hard into your approach, reversing that bank and turn and applying full throttle to follow, allowing a quick snapshot and a positional improvement.

The other aircraft elects to firewall the throttle, proceed to climb straight up, nose on nose, guns blazing, in the hopes of landing a stray hit.

Now.

Which maneuver is probably one of the most dweebish things you can do in the game?

And.

Which aircraft would you expect to perform which maneuver?

Then.

How often do you see that particular aircraft perform that particular feat?


In my case?  Fairly often.  Since the 16 can defy the laws of physics, that sort of "maneuver" is possible for anyone to perform.  I don't even see many La7's do this.

Now, don't get me wrong.  We need aircraft like the 16.  As previously stated, it offers newer players an opportunity to try and break into the steep learning curve which exists.

However, there comes a point when the lack of any substantial performance deficiencies result in horribly bad habits which ultimately manifest themselves in the type of dweebery described above.

For my $15, I'd sure as poop rather try and fight it out with the guy for the next couple minutes than make an attempt to end the "engagement" in the space of 2 seconds, based largely on chance, after flying 10 minutes to get to a fight.

Three cents cashed, adjusted for inflation.

[MachFly]

That's why we've spent trillions developing and building the F-22 raptor, and the EU has billions on the Eurofighter, eh?

A plane is not a plane. A pilot can only fly as well as his plane performs. Good pilots know their limitations and fly within them. Great pilots only engage and fight when their limitations don't come into play. Having a plane with no limitations makes the same pilot (same skills) multiple times more effective than a plane WITH limitations.

Would you rather drive a railroad spike with a dimestore claw hammer, or a 20lb sledge? Given the same person swinging, one has a lore more capabilities to lend to the user's skill.

The more modern the planes get the more it depends on the plane not the pilot. Back in WWII it depended alot on the pilot, however a plane did play a major roll in success.

As I stated to you, "You know dweebery when you see it."  Can you associate it with aircraft aside from the 16?  Of course.

That said, I am perfectly comfortable stating that the overwhelming majority of the dweeby behavior in the MA is performed by 16 drivers.

Ill take you on a visual journey through the virtual skies of Aces High if it'll help:

You see two baddies ahead and below.  You have every conceivable advantage except surprise.  The pair consists of a 109K4 and a Spit16.  You dive to bounce them.

As you pass through about 350MPH, far exceeding their level flight speed, and approach 2,000 meters distance, closing rapidly, each opponent chooses his or her ideal counter to avoid damage and improve their position.

One of them reduces throttle, banks 90 degrees and pulls hard into your approach, reversing that bank and turn and applying full throttle to follow, allowing a quick snapshot and a positional improvement.

The other aircraft elects to firewall the throttle, proceed to climb straight up, nose on nose, guns blazing, in the hopes of landing a stray hit.

Now.

Which maneuver is probably one of the most dweebish things you can do in the game?

And.

Which aircraft would you expect to perform which maneuver?

Then.

How often do you see that particular aircraft perform that particular feat?


In my case?  Fairly often.  Since the 16 can defy the laws of physics, that sort of "maneuver" is possible for anyone to perform.  I don't even see many La7's do this.

Now, don't get me wrong.  We need aircraft like the 16.  As previously stated, it offers newer players an opportunity to try and break into the steep learning curve which exists.

However, there comes a point when the lack of any substantial performance deficiencies result in horribly bad habits which ultimately manifest themselves in the type of dweebery described above.

For my $15, I'd sure as poop rather try and fight it out with the guy for the next couple minutes than make an attempt to end the "engagement" in the space of 2 seconds, based largely on chance, after flying 10 minutes to get to a fight.

Three cents cashed, adjusted for inflation.

[Krusty]

The more modern the planes get the more it depends on the plane not the pilot. Back in WWII it depended alot on the pilot, however a plane did play a major roll in success.

Tell that to the Defiant pilots, the Bf110C4 pilots during BOB, the P40E pilots in N. Africa shot down by 109Fs, the many P-47s outmanuvered and shot down by 190s/109s, the p47 pilots that by all rights should have died many times over but sat there soaking up hundreds of rounds from ground fire and aircraft.


Oh, yes, surely the aircraft performance duringf WW2 had little to do with who made it back alive or dead.