Defining bad game-play

[Shuffler]

I have come to the conclusion that their is no "GOOD" or "BAD"  gameplay..one mans "GOOD" gameplay is anothers "BAD" gameplay.

 The game is whatever one wants to make it..I dont think this will ever change..There will always be people complaining about one thing or another.because they got shot down,a base got taken,And the complaint about HOW it happened.."I GOT HO'ED","HE WAS SPAWN CAMPING","YOUR BUDDIES HELPED YOU"etc..etc...

  As far as defining bad game-play or even good game-play,opinions vary to the point it will never be "SET" in stone,it is all in the mind of the one playing the game.

     

That is true. Same as in real life... some rob folks not seeing anything wrong with it as long as they come out on top. It takes all kinds and we have all kinds in this game.

[Yeager]

It takes all kinds and we have all kinds in this game.

What kind are you?

[Shuffler]

I don't rob.... what kind are you?

[Crash Orange]

Many enjoy the historical aspect of the game. They want to fly the planes in an accurate manner.

I've seen it back when there was an unwriten code, and the majority of people who played, played the game as it was intended... as a combat simulation.

Courtly 1v1 duels from a co-alt cold merge where interference from other pilots is frowned on and a crippled bird is spared out of a sense of honor are neither the "accurate manner" in which the real-life planes were flown nor a simulation of aerial combat as it has ever been conducted.

If you feel you must tell everyone else how they ought to play the game and insult everyone who disagrees, I suppose it's your right to do so, but don't delude yourself that it has anything to do with history.

And after reading hundreds of posts on this subject I still have yet to see a satisfactory explanation as to how another player playing in a style you disapprove of constitutes not "letting you play the game". The maps are big enough for anyone to easily avoid the "horde" if they want to. If all the "horde" players left the game tomorrow your gaming experience wouldn't be appreciably different unless you currently CHOOSE to fly with or take on the horde. All you're really doing is whining that other people don't want to do what you tell them. 

That's not to say there is no bad game-play or poor sportsmanship, of course there is. But having different goals and playing styles than what you would prefer isn't it.

[eddiek]

"Bad" gameplay can usually be categorized as anything that is against what a person is doing at a particular time, or what they're in the mood to tolerate.
Doesn't mean either party is right, or wrong, just a matter of perspective.
Personally, my pet peeve is the NOE raids with huge numbers of participants going against a lightly or undefended target.  Those are designed from the onset to guarantee success, with little or no chance of failure.  The object of the raid, beyond base capture, appears to be to bully the opposition with overwhelming #'s, then pat one another on the back.  To each his own, but for me that would be boring, and I can't see myself participating in one.
I'd rather see those same raiders go and hit a base that was being defended, with equal or close to equal #'s of defenders (wait, I saw that one night last week.....took 3 waves of attackers to finally take the base, even after killing off the FH's... ).  Make the raid exciting, throw in a chance that you might fail, or end in a stalemate, don't keep jumping all over the map hitting undefended bases, especially when your country outnumbers your target base's country 2-3:1 already.  
That's just my opinion, nothing more, nothing less.  
NOE raids can be fun, I'll give you that.  WAY back when, The Assassins used to stage NOE raids when Zigrat was big into base capture, but we rarely had more than 7-8 squaddies online at any one time, and most NOE raids we would only have 4 or 5 guys take part.  Those type raids are fun for everyone, attacker and defender alike.  It makes the raid a challenge, and I don't recall any raid, success or failure, that both sides didn't send "<S>" out.  Both sides had more than adequate chances to win, neither side tried to or had to send up overwhelming numbers of planes.
Sorry for the wall o text, just throwing my thoughts and opinions out there...........

[Dadsguns]

I'll show anyone respect until they prove they don't deserve it. I don't suffer fools gladly, nor do I put up with stupidity. Again, the purpose of this game has nothing to do with real life other than as an entertainment value.

Without getting too far off topic.

I too will also respect anyone until they prove otherwise.

However, IMO the purpose of this game is not to be human, but it has as much to do with real life as the entertainment value, you are dealing with the human factor each time you play this game, everyones interaction as well as your opponents dictate the outcome of your entertainment, everyones true colors shine in their response to what you see in the game, players can be ignorant, arrogant, abusive, along with honorable, sincere, apologetic, and many true facets of what makes us human. 

You cant find that in a game where you compete against just the computer where there is no interaction, sometimes its a good thing, sometimes its a bad thing. 
The internet has emboldened a generation of people that feel they don't have to behave in some sense of normalcy or respect since they get the "I'm a thousand miles from nowhere" syndrome and nobody can touch them.  That has come to haunt a few.

For the most part I know there are some good people (notice I didn't say players) in this game, I try to surround myself with people that I enjoy to be around to help make my time in game more enjoyable, negativity is not an option.   

Time to eat, got to go.... 

[smokey23]

Jeeeeeez 6 pages and were still trying to define bad game play??

(1) BAD GAME PLAY.....people playing badly

(2) GOOD GAME PLAY.....people playing goodly 

nuff said

[The Fugitive]

Courtly 1v1 duels from a co-alt cold merge where interference from other pilots is frowned on and a crippled bird is spared out of a sense of honor are neither the "accurate manner" in which the real-life planes were flown nor a simulation of aerial combat as it has ever been conducted.

Again confusing the "game" with "real life" In a game, whats wrong with that type of honor. Saluting a foe that has fought well and letting them limp home.

If you feel you must tell everyone else how they ought to play the game and insult everyone who disagrees, I suppose it's your right to do so, but don't delude yourself that it has anything to do with history.

I'm not "telling" anyone how to play the game, and Shuff.... well he's just a grumpy old man    First you say things like this didn't happen in history,comparing things to history, then you say this.

And after reading hundreds of posts on this subject I still have yet to see a satisfactory explanation as to how another player playing in a style you disapprove of constitutes not "letting you play the game". The maps are big enough for anyone to easily avoid the "horde" if they want to. If all the "horde" players left the game tomorrow your gaming experience wouldn't be appreciably different unless you currently CHOOSE to fly with or take on the horde. All you're really doing is whining that other people don't want to do what you tell them. 

That's not to say there is no bad game-play or poor sportsmanship, of course there is. But having different goals and playing styles than what you would prefer isn't it.

Having 10 vulch me when I try to stop an NOE horde stops me from playing the game. If your going to bring that many, let me get my wheels up and some air under my wings. Or I can join the horde and race to kill the few people who up to defend, again stoping me from playing the game because I'm here to fight, not "get there first with my cannons" Sure I look for and find other areas to play, and enjoy every minute that I do. However, if the game play continues to turn into a horde fest, HOing with cannon planes there aren't going to be as many of those spots left.

Without getting too far off topic.

I too will also respect anyone until they prove otherwise.

However, IMO the purpose of this game is not to be human, but it has as much to do with real life as the entertainment value, you are dealing with the human factor each time you play this game, everyones interaction as well as your opponents dictate the outcome of your entertainment, everyones true colors shine in their response to what you see in the game, players can be ignorant, arrogant, abusive, along with honorable, sincere, apologetic, and many true facets of what makes us human. 

You cant find that in a game where you compete against just the computer where there is no interaction, sometimes its a good thing, sometimes its a bad thing. 
The internet has emboldened a generation of people that feel they don't have to behave in some sense of normalcy or respect since they get the "I'm a thousand miles from nowhere" syndrome and nobody can touch them.  That has come to haunt a few.

For the most part I know there are some good people (notice I didn't say players) in this game, I try to surround myself with people that I enjoy to be around to help make my time in game more enjoyable, negativity is not an option.   

Time to eat, got to go.... 

So basically what your saying is that in side this little "world/community" that HTC has made there are people with a certain amount of "honor" and that you prefer to hang out those that you like. I think thats what I was talking about when I said that more people should play this game with honor. Are the guys you fly with the kind of guy that goes for the HO every pass? Do you guys run NOE after NOE in a big group of 110"s? Do you guys run around doing the "lame" things that most people consider poor game play? Thats the question people have to ask themselves, and .....heres the biggy... answer themselves HONESTLY.

[Dadsguns]

Are the guys you fly with the kind of guy that goes for the HO every pass?
Do you guys run NOE after NOE in a big group of 110"s?
Do you guys run around doing the "lame" things that most people consider poor game play?
Thats the question people have to ask themselves, and .....heres the biggy... answer themselves HONESTLY.

It would be hard for the majority to say NO to each one of these since we all have been guilty of one of these in some shape or form.  Some of these things were the norm in the past, but as of late NO.

Have I and others improved our game play to conduct ourselves accordingly?  Yes. 

[Yeager]

I don't rob.... what kind are you?

I am the kind of player that enjoys just about everything the game has to offer and I try not to be harshly critical of other players styles and preferences.  Beyond that, anything goes, and frequently does.

[Crash Orange]

Again confusing the "game" with "real life" In a game, whats wrong with that type of honor. Saluting a foe that has fought well and letting them limp home.

Nothing's wrong with it, and you're the one who claimed it was a "combat simulation". Good sportsmanship is a fine thing in a game, but it has nothing to do with combat.

So basically what your saying is that in side this little "world/community" that HTC has made there are people with a certain amount of "honor" and that you prefer to hang out those that you like.

We've been through this in other threads, and I don't think "honor" is the correct phrase for what we're talking about, it's sportsmanship and manners. Those are fine things, but failure to observe them is not a violation of honor. HOing everything in sight and running back to base may be the result of ignorance, immaturity, or lack of appreciation of the finer points of the game, but it doesn't indicate a lack of integrity or morals. Immoral or dishonorable behavior in this game would be hacking the program, or somehow contriving to steal HTC's services, i.e. play without paying (other than the free two weeks). I think it diminishes the notion of "honor" if you apply it to mere bad manners.

And I'm happy with the people I fly with, none of whom fit your description in my opinion. I'm glad you find the game enjoyable too. If we find different modes of play enjoyable, so what? Nothing says you have to play my way or vice versa.

I also wish everyone would stop carping on the generation thing. Every generation since Adam and Eve has complained about "kids today". Teens today aren't often brash and clueless because they're different from their parents, they're often brash and clueless because they're the same as their parents, who acted the same way when they were 15. There are plenty of young people today who are generally polite, respectful, and responsible, they just don't draw attention to themselves the way the rude and obnoxious ones do. That was also true 30 years ago when I was a teenager and it was true 3,000 years ago when the village wise men proclaimed the imminent end of civilization because young people had no respect for their elders.

[BnZs]

Again confusing the "game" with "real life"

Fugi,
This is a *WWII flight simulation* game. If it were verboten in all arenas to do anything except climb to 5K, engage another aircraft in a 1v1 to the finish, repeat, I don't think you would actually like it. WWII pilots used teamwork, energy, and hit-and-run tactics where appropriate. This game would be a limited bastardization if these tactics were forbidden, just as much of a bastardization as the 20v1 mentality you loathe.

[DrDea]

 I can say the Flying Circus is a group that will rarely if ever take the HO pass on the merge.If out numbered severly maybe.Gotta do what ya gotta do in some situations.
  I guess I dont care how others play,I can voice my displeasure about it but to each his own. I feel alot better in a fight if I know the other guy is gonna NOT head on me and its a serious fight instead of a kill or run ordeal.

[The Fugitive]

Nothing's wrong with it, and you're the one who claimed it was a "combat simulation". Good sportsmanship is a fine thing in a game, but it has nothing to do with combat.

We've been through this in other threads, and I don't think "honor" is the correct phrase for what we're talking about, it's sportsmanship and manners. Those are fine things, but failure to observe them is not a violation of honor. HOing everything in sight and running back to base may be the result of ignorance, immaturity, or lack of appreciation of the finer points of the game, but it doesn't indicate a lack of integrity or morals. Immoral or dishonorable behavior in this game would be hacking the program, or somehow contriving to steal HTC's services, i.e. play without paying (other than the free two weeks). I think it diminishes the notion of "honor" if you apply it to mere bad manners.

And I'm happy with the people I fly with, none of whom fit your description in my opinion. I'm glad you find the game enjoyable too. If we find different modes of play enjoyable, so what? Nothing says you have to play my way or vice versa.

I also wish everyone would stop carping on the generation thing. Every generation since Adam and Eve has complained about "kids today". Teens today aren't often brash and clueless because they're different from their parents, they're often brash and clueless because they're the same as their parents, who acted the same way when they were 15. There are plenty of young people today who are generally polite, respectful, and responsible, they just don't draw attention to themselves the way the rude and obnoxious ones do. That was also true 30 years ago when I was a teenager and it was true 3,000 years ago when the village wise men proclaimed the imminent end of civilization because young people had no respect for their elders.

So what your saying, is for the most part you...and your friends play with good sportsmanship. That would mean.... to me any.... way that you avoid going for the HO, you avoid NOE after NOE in a fleets of 110s, you avoid jumping into fight were its already 6 on 1. Basically you avoid lame game play. Thats all I'm suggesting here.

Fugi,
This is a *WWII flight simulation* game. If it were verboten in all arenas to do anything except climb to 5K, engage another aircraft in a 1v1 to the finish, repeat, I don't think you would actually like it. WWII pilots used teamwork, energy, and hit-and-run tactics where appropriate. This game would be a limited bastardization if these tactics were forbidden, just as much of a bastardization as the 20v1 mentality you loathe.

I have never said to do away with squad tactics, or wingman fighting. There is nothing wrong with a well run mission, and the base capture is the cu-di-gra of a well run mission. I'm just suggesting that we all work toward getting the "lame/poor" game play out of the game. Teach the new guys what a mission is about. In stead of the focus being on steam rolling another base, make to focus be on a well run mission with the minumun number of guys needed. Add more dificulty by making a mission a multy pronged attack so that the first wave is just a testing attack to see the response, and drag the defenders away, while 8 minutes after the attack starts the second wing comes ripping in for the main attack.

There are hundreds of ways to run missions, instead we see NOEs with 12 110s , 4 goons, and as many NIK they can get to fill in before the launch. Fighter skills are to race in and HO as fast as you can to beat the horde to the kill.... maneuver? Whats that? GV's its who sees the spawn first  This is the type of lame/poor game play that I'm talking about.

We don't have enough people who know what a thatch weave IS let alone know how to use it. The same goes for any number of other wingman tactics. This the stuff that should be brought back into the game. In the old days it was about tactics and stratigy, today its about who has the biggest di.... ummm guns 

[bmwgs]

So basically what your saying is that in side this little "world/community" that HTC has made there are people with a certain amount of "honor" and that you prefer to hang out those that you like. I think thats what I was talking about when I said that more people should play this game with honor. Are the guys you fly with the kind of guy that goes for the HO every pass? Do you guys run NOE after NOE in a big group of 110"s? Do you guys run around doing the "lame" things that most people consider poor game play? Thats the question people have to ask themselves, and .....heres the biggy... answer themselves HONESTLY

So basically what your saying is that in side this little "world/community" that HTC has made there are people with a certain amount of "honor" and that you prefer to hang out those that you like.

Fugitive I read this sentence several times to make sure I understood what I was reading.  Sure I want to hang with the people I like.  I sure don't want to hang with the people I dislike.  I'm not sure what your intended meaning is. As for "honor" even this community can not come up with a real definition of what honor is in this specific game.  The community itself (or at least the forum community) is split in its definition of this simple word, so as I see it honor in this community is ones owns perspective.

Do you guys run around doing the "lame" things that most people consider poor game play?

This is an assumed statement.  What is considered "most people" when it concerns lame game play.  We have players that are vocal in the forums, but I doubt they could be considered "most players" since I believe I read in the forums here somewhere, and I could be corrected on this, that only a small percentage of players in Aces High are registered in the forums.  It goes back to the endless cycle as to what is considered lame game play.  What is lame to me may not be lame to you.

Just some opinions at 2:00 am in the morning.   

Fred