Author Topic: Defining bad game-play  (Read 24921 times)

Offline SkyRock

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Re: Defining bad game-play
« Reply #135 on: April 17, 2009, 07:59:11 AM »
what I see alot, because I like to drag folks for a 1 vs 1, or engage in 1 vs 1 dogfights.....is a con that looks at the dar, sees a single enemy and a single con fighting, and flies in that direction....two things a clear by this action...

1.  (giving the fella the benefit of the doubt)he says, "maybe the friendly needs help?"    OK, I can handle that, fair enough.

2.  Now, the fella makes it there and sees the friendly with the advantage, and handling the enemy easily.....(if he still attacks...without asking the friendly if he needs help, he is exhibiting bad gameplay...IMHO), if he asked the friendly, and the friendly says, "sure go ahead and make an attempt to interrupt my fight and steal my kill"....then that is fine(I doubt that will happen, but we are giving the situation the benefit of the doubt)

3.  Now, where I find bad gameplay evident, is when the 3rd, and 4th, and 5th fella fly over there....there is no excuse for it...it is milking the community, selfishly, for ...I guess score?....kills?...grief?....what could possibly be good for going to a fight where one enemy already has 2 or 3 on him...I mean what are you going to do?...get the kill?...at the expense of someone who was already there working for the kill?...grief the friendly that has spent time on the enemy, and you show up 4th man in and "steal" the kill?  It just makes no sense to me....and often, I find "vets", or folks who have played a couple of years doing this....it is bad gameplay IMHO.

4.  If me posting this changes even one person to re-evaluate these types of situations, and causes them to "ask" the friendly first...and honor his request, then    (the time it took to type this post)...was spent wisely. :aok













 :noid
« Last Edit: April 17, 2009, 08:01:04 AM by SkyRock »

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Offline SkyRock

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Re: Defining bad game-play
« Reply #136 on: April 17, 2009, 08:04:29 AM »


Stealing a squad mate kill is something all together different  :D However, picture a newb, been flying for a few weeks. Starting to get the hang of things, but 90% of his kills are getting stolen when ever he flys. How frustrating do you think it would be to him/her not having your experience to keep that "perspective"? How many people cancel their subscription due to the frustrations lame game play causes?
or better yet, how many stop and say....Oh, this is how the game should be played....frustrate and grief friendlies by constantly trying to steal their kills, and interrupt their fun for your own "name in lights" glory.  I expect newbs to come in and try and steal kills, it's people who have been playing awhile, that you know are scorehoring that is repulsing.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2009, 09:20:15 AM by SkyRock »

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Offline Dawger

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Re: Defining bad game-play
« Reply #137 on: April 17, 2009, 08:17:39 AM »
However, picture a newb, been flying for a few weeks. Starting to get the hang of things, but 90% of his kills are getting stolen when ever he flys. How frustrating do you think it would be to him/her not having your experience to keep that "perspective"? How many people cancel their subscription due to the frustrations lame game play causes?

I'd have to say that number would be zero from "Kill Stealing". But maybe I come from an entirely different universe. There is no such thing as kill stealing. There is no Aces High Bureau of Kill Ownership that issues the Title on each kill. And the kill doesn't belong to the guy that gets credit in the buffer. He is just the guy who got the credit.

If you are running around in circles with a bandit and someone else swoops in and blasts the bandit into next week, its your own damn fault for taking so long to arrive at a guns solution. Most new players understand this instinctively. I don't think anyone comes into the game with a sense of entitlement with regards to particular kills.

I have seen players who shoot at the wreckage just to get the credit and it doesn't bother me one bit. But 12 years online and most of them spent training folks will do that to you.

Be happy for the other guy when he gets the kill. You will get more later I'm sure. It is a sad life if you believe there is any such thing as "kill stealing" in Aces High. I can only imagine the sort of mental state of being that can justify thinking that way and I am truly saddened to know such pitiful people exist.

Offline The Fury

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Re: Defining bad game-play
« Reply #138 on: April 17, 2009, 08:20:29 AM »
what I see alot, because I like to drag folks for a 1 vs 1, or engage in 1 vs 1 dogfights.....is a con that looks at the dar, sees a single enemy and a single con fighting, and flies in that direction....two things a clear by this action...

1.  (giving the fella the benefit of the doubt)he says, "maybe the friendly needs help?"    OK, I can handle that, fair enough.

2.  Now, the fella makes it there and sees the friendly with the advantage, and handling the enemy easily.....(if he still attacks...without asking the friendly if he needs help, he is exhibiting bad gameplay...IMHO), if he asked the friendly, and the friendly says, "sure go ahead and make an attempt to interrupt my fight and steal my kill"....then that is fine(I doubt that will happen, but we are giving the situation the benefit of the doubt)

3.  Now, where I find bad gameplay evident, is when the 3rd, and 4th, and 5th fella fly over there....there is no excuse for it...it is milking the community, selfishly, for ...I guess score?....kills?...grief?....what could possibly be good for going to a fight where one enemy already has 2 or 3 on him...I mean what are you going to do?...get the kill?...at the expense of someone who was already there working for the kill?...grief the friendly that has spent time on the enemy, and you show up 4th man in and "steal" the kill?  It just makes no sense to me....and often, I find "vets", or folks who have played a couple of years doing this....it is bad gameplay IMHO.

4.  If me posting this changes even one person to re-evaluate these types of situations, and causes them to "ask" the friendly first...and honor his request, then    (the time it took to type this post)...was spent wisely. :aok

I agree 100% with what you say, the amount of times i have been saddled up on someone`s 6 just for some high alt score dweeb to zoom right through and kill my target its lame and people should think twice before doing it.

If i see 2 cons are fighting and the friendly is on the enemy i will not jump in unless its the other way around, what i will do tho is i will circle above the fight and wait until the friendly needs my help but if he doesnt im waiting for the enemys friend to come in i just dont see the point in blowing all my alt just to steal kills its pathetic behaviour and it doesnt help in the long run when we need higher cover for otw enemies.

If you see me on an enemys 6 leave me alone dont come and kill him as i am perfectly capable of doing so myself i like to take my time and conserve ammo this is why it takes a while to kill sometimes as i am waiting for the right shot.

Also those damn shoulder shooters get up my nose too, be patient or break off the con let the guy who is actually on the cons 6 to kill him go get alt or find another con to kill its simple.
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Offline humble

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Re: Defining bad game-play
« Reply #139 on: April 17, 2009, 08:23:26 AM »
Before you can define "bad game play" I do believe you have to try and attempt to define "good" game play. Anyone who knows me is aware that I favor small scale air combat and so I tend to be a bit of a lone wolf. As a group the squad I belong to rarely interjects itself in a major way into the flow of the "war" overall. However I do think that any real definition of "good" game play does have to be in that context....

So....

going back roughly a year or so we happened to have a pretty good mass of guys up one Sunday (15 or so) and "we" {knights} were just getting pummeled on all fronts. The map in use had a kind of peninsula on one side of our "homeland" with 6-7 air bases and a few Vbases all under enemy control with a wave of red rolling off the coastal base at the base of the peninsula toward our HQ area. Beef, Solar and a few of the guys are actually exceptionally good buff drivers...so we launched a "mizzun" 6 buff formations and 9 escorts to take out the entire peninsula. Driving up the back leg and then back to the key base in a giant "U".

Suprisingly we do get noticed any time we up en mass so we got a few calls on take off, we simply said we're touring the countryside and your welcome to come. We picked up a buff formation or two....after we hit the 1st target (we do 1 pass only coordinated on multiple approach vectors) I asked Redtop for permission to take a couple of guys and cut across the route to the 2nd coastal base to cap it. I knew that the guys would hit the 2nd base before it upped fighters to alt and figured RT Bat and Steff would easily coordinate buff defense vs the base at the bottom of the U.

Meanwhile Solar (if i remember right) detached to hit the 2 Vbases that supported the coastal A bases near the front and Bat and a wingie went with Solar and another buff formation. My 3 got the coastal base all tangled up, RT led the main group around the horn and Solar trashed the Vbases and came screaming in to the base we were "capping" (more like alamoing in reverse) to take out the V hanger. All this allowed the rest of the knights to catch a breath and by the time we even got to the coast we had 2 other squads on vox coordinating (if I recall JG11 was one). They hit the town hard with 4-5 guys while the now 5 of us "fought" the 30+ air cons while solar strafed the runways at 500 ft or so...the base got snuck while Beef, RT and crew were inbound to drop the hangers so we all plowed up the coast to the original target base...

To me "good game play" is strength on strength and tactics, not 10/1 odds and rolling the map. Its 15 or 20 guys vs 50 or 100 and finding a way to overcome the situation at hand. what I see now on all sides is good fights being ruined because missions are launched where the good fight is in the balance and overwhelming numbers are used to sway the outcome. So were before we had an individual fight getting ganged now we have the good group fights getting ganged.

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Offline The Fugitive

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Re: Defining bad game-play
« Reply #140 on: April 17, 2009, 08:47:11 AM »
I'd have to say that number would be zero from "Kill Stealing". But maybe I come from an entirely different universe. There is no such thing as kill stealing. There is no Aces High Bureau of Kill Ownership that issues the Title on each kill. And the kill doesn't belong to the guy that gets credit in the buffer. He is just the guy who got the credit.

If you are running around in circles with a bandit and someone else swoops in and blasts the bandit into next week, its your own damn fault for taking so long to arrive at a guns solution. Most new players understand this instinctively. I don't think anyone comes into the game with a sense of entitlement with regards to particular kills.

I have seen players who shoot at the wreckage just to get the credit and it doesn't bother me one bit. But 12 years online and most of them spent training folks will do that to you.

Be happy for the other guy when he gets the kill. You will get more later I'm sure. It is a sad life if you believe there is any such thing as "kill stealing" in Aces High. I can only imagine the sort of mental state of being that can justify thinking that way and I am truly saddened to know such pitiful people exist.

Your right, you do come from a different universe... Warbirds  :D Things are different here than they were there. I fly with Savlan and a bunch of his guys in the 475th that came over from WB. Joe's a good guy to hang out with as well as most of his crew. Flying with them I can see a big difference in the way they fly. Their point of view is different. I remember them having trouble in the AvA arena looking to fight the way they had at WB. The AvA "regulars" at the time made it miserable for them. Some quit, and some changed a bit to fit in with how things are done in AH.

Reading "The fury's" post you can see that there are other people who have a problem with kill stealing. At this point of my "flying career"   :D  I like to fight. Not chase some guy down, not pick someone off my wingys tail, tho I will do both, I like to be in the fight, 1 on 1, even 2 on me is fun. The culmination of a fight is dead, I loose, or I kill the other guy I win.  So someone sweeping in and popping the guy I finaly get right where I want him gets me frustrated.

Of the guys just coming into the game, what do you thing is the main reason they are here? My guess would be to "kill the other guy",shoot down planes. If you steal his kill you just took the fun, and his main purpose away from him. If he can't do what he signed up for, ya think he might cancel?
« Last Edit: April 17, 2009, 08:49:17 AM by The Fugitive »

Offline BnZs

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Re: Defining bad game-play
« Reply #141 on: April 17, 2009, 09:04:57 AM »
Coming from a different sim is no excuse, I can't imagine that in Warbirds or AW, or "flying polygons with guns 1.0" behavior of the sort you seem to defend was looked on any more favorably.



If you are running around in circles with a bandit and someone else swoops in and blasts the bandit into next week, its your own damn fault for taking so long to arrive at a guns solution. Most new players understand this instinctively. I don't think anyone comes into the game with a sense of entitlement with regards to particular kills.


Biggest pile of BS I ever saw. The guy "going around in circles" as you put it, with the bandit on his 12, straining for a gun solution, has put time, energy, and skill into putting the bandit in a position where a random picker can blast through and steal the kill in the first place. This is often especially the case when one b'n'z fighter forces another to engage and slow down to fight, and some picker in a b'n'z airplane will come along and "help" the friendly working the bandit by clearing his 12.

I have seen players who shoot at the wreckage just to get the credit and it doesn't bother me one bit. But 12 years online and most of them spent training folks will do that to you.

Inconceivable...the single lamest behavior in the game, and it doesn't bother you, but people who call such behavior what it is, this does bother you?

Deliberately shooting at falling wreckage to steal the kill goes beyond mere lame gameplay, I'm comfortable calling it a form of cheating.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2009, 09:06:46 AM by BnZs »
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Offline Dadsguns

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Re: Defining bad game-play
« Reply #142 on: April 17, 2009, 09:09:36 AM »
Rooks and Nits usually though, you can go an entire weekend without seeing 1 mission planner up.

Your assuming that the Missions/NOE's that Rooks and Nits are being posted, when in actuality the NOE's that I have busted are usually compromised of an entire squad with a few stragglers, so they may not be posted missions.


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Offline SkyRock

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Re: Defining bad game-play
« Reply #143 on: April 17, 2009, 09:27:09 AM »
Coming from a different sim is no excuse, I can't imagine that in Warbirds or AW, or "flying polygons with guns 1.0" behavior of the sort you seem to defend was looked on any more favorably.

Biggest pile of BS I ever saw. The guy "going around in circles" as you put it, with the bandit on his 12, straining for a gun solution, has put time, energy, and skill into putting the bandit in a position where a random picker can blast through and steal the kill in the first place. This is often especially the case when one b'n'z fighter forces another to engage and slow down to fight, and some picker in a b'n'z airplane will come along and "help" the friendly working the bandit by clearing his 12.

Inconceivable...the single lamest behavior in the game, and it doesn't bother you, but people who call such behavior what it is, this does bother you?

Deliberately shooting at falling wreckage to steal the kill goes beyond mere lame gameplay, I'm comfortable calling it a form of cheating.
:aok

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Offline crazyivan

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Re: Defining bad game-play
« Reply #144 on: April 17, 2009, 01:01:43 PM »
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Offline Masherbrum

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Re: Defining bad game-play
« Reply #145 on: April 17, 2009, 01:21:11 PM »
I didnt say it wouldnt work,but it  would be very difficult..

I've taken MANY bases with 1-2 110's and 1 goon.    If 12 110's and 4 goons cannot take a base, they suck.   
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Offline LLogann

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Re: Defining bad game-play
« Reply #146 on: April 17, 2009, 01:26:09 PM »
Bad game play is a simple one.........  If I can't shoot today, switch to a bomber.  Thus removing bad game play.


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Offline rvflyer

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Re: Defining bad game-play
« Reply #147 on: April 17, 2009, 02:34:29 PM »
what I see alot, because I like to drag folks for a 1 vs 1, or engage in 1 vs 1 dogfights.....is a con that looks at the dar, sees a single enemy and a single con fighting, and flies in that direction....two things a clear by this action...



3.  Now, where I find bad gameplay evident, is when the 3rd, and 4th, and 5th fella fly over there....there is no excuse for it...it is milking the community, selfishly, for ...I guess score?....kills?...grief?....what could possibly be good for going to a fight where one enemy already has 2 or 3 on him...I mean what are you going to do?...get the kill?...at the expense of someone who was already there working for the kill?...grief the friendly that has spent time on the enemy, and you show up 4th man in and "steal" the kill?  It just makes no sense to me....and often, I find "vets", or folks who have played a couple of years doing this....it is bad gameplay IMHO.



 :noid

So true SkyRock, I have just about quit this game because of what you describe. You work and work to get into a position on the nme tail for a good clean shot and some
A**H*** dweeb comes screaming in from above with bullets spraying all over the place and gets between you and the plane you are working on about the time you are getting ready to squeeze off a shot. Now you either dead from killshot or at least damaged, while spraying dweeb  is getting "good shot" calls and is really proud of theirself for taking your sure kill. This is even more irritating than a HO IMO
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Offline Crash Orange

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Re: Defining bad game-play
« Reply #148 on: April 17, 2009, 03:34:38 PM »
Deliberately shooting at falling wreckage to steal the kill goes beyond mere lame gameplay, I'm comfortable calling it a form of cheating.

I'm not. Incredibly lame is not the same as cheating. The distinction is, IMHO, important.

Would you really want someone banned permanently for shooting at wreckage?

My pet peeve lame behavior this week: boom'n'run. I understand not wanting to get mired in a turn fight in a plane that's bad at that, but people who climb to 20k before getting anywhere near the enemy, take a few clumsy passes from 5k-10 up and then run all the way home because their e advantage is no longer what they'd like it to be are weenies of the first order. Second place goes to people who attack with superior numbers and then run all the way home because their friend gets killed and they're now facing even odds.  :mad:

Those people are much worse for game play than so-called "hordes".

Offline BnZs

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Re: Defining bad game-play
« Reply #149 on: April 17, 2009, 03:40:51 PM »
Hey, before you congratulate me SR, that was supposed to read "this is often the case when one fast b'n'z fighter forces another fast b'n'z fighter to engage, and some T'n'B aircraft will swoop in for the easy saddle/pick." There, that gets what I meant to say across.

:aok
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