Author Topic: Defining bad game-play  (Read 25341 times)

Offline The Fugitive

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Re: Defining bad game-play
« Reply #270 on: April 21, 2009, 08:36:25 AM »
:rofl  Been done already,,, still didnt stop it.  They didnt even show up.

Which this is the result.


Fug, your snapshot says more than just bish attacking your town, there were as many rooks if not more around that base, where were they?  20k+ above the base, NW of the base attacking the CV preventing any aircraft getting in, several at the V-base covering for any bombers, EVERYTHING was covered, except your own base.  We took advantage of this, its that simple.

As for lynx saying he is seeing MORE of these missions, Your out of touch or your making it up, As for Bish goes, I see less of these missions than the last several years and many longtime bish will agree with that.  I do recall seeing many missions posted over and over with missions in the past, there is nowhere near that amount going on now.

Maybe running them more often and at the same pace as the past will jog your memory and give you a warm and fuzzy.

Is this kind of like the day I shot you down 3 times in a row to kill some tents at an airfield, taking them down at all cost..... and then hide in the "BIG RED DAR"  Is that the kind of avoidance you speak of, help me understand what you mean by avoiding YOU shooting THEM down.   :lol

The point of that picture is first its a VEHICLE BASE, and the Bish felt they needed 20 to 3 numbers to capture it. At the time of that shot, there were no other rooks around. In FALCON's picture you can see the dar bar a minute after my screen shot.



The problem was, the fight was killed, and the horde was at the VB. No fun here so everyone left. You can spread your BS all you want, there was only the "horde".

The point is these missions are becoming the norm. Everything in this game is geared toward one thing...combat. These type of missions don't bring combat, they chase it away, and there by avoid it. It also creates a spot for players to hide in. Why are they hiding? Because they are not very good alone. So in stead of spending time to learn HOW to play the game, they hide behind all of the numbers. In my screen shot...not counting me... there are 3 of those 20 with a positive k/d (more kills than deaths) and two of them are single flights under one heading which they no longer fly just to keep the score. Why should these people try to improve? They can hide behind the horde. The downside is with no skills the only way they CAN play AND "WIN" is hiding in a group.

Offline thndregg

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Re: Defining bad game-play
« Reply #271 on: April 21, 2009, 08:39:39 AM »
Sounds good. 
Whats going to be funny is the type of resistance that shows up, everything from under the kitchen sink that can peel a tater......  :lol  if anything at all.

Alive and well myself, as a matter of fact getting ready for summer, got the Jetski and Boat ready, tents weather proofed, camping gear, got a 2 week camping trip planned out....   


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Offline Dadsguns

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Re: Defining bad game-play
« Reply #272 on: April 21, 2009, 09:11:38 AM »
The point is these missions are becoming the norm. Everything in this game is geared toward one thing...combat. These type of missions don't bring combat, they chase it away, and there by avoid it. It also creates a spot for players to hide in. Why are they hiding? Because they are not very good alone. So in stead of spending time to learn HOW to play the game, they hide behind all of the numbers. In my screen shot...not counting me... there are 3 of those 20 with a positive k/d (more kills than deaths) and two of them are single flights under one heading which they no longer fly just to keep the score. Why should these people try to improve? They can hide behind the horde. The downside is with no skills the only way they CAN play AND "WIN" is hiding in a group.

Your assuming that ANYONE involved in missions or with a k/d (more deaths than kills) cant fight or have skill?  Your wrong.  There are many facets to playing this game and some of these guys are rather good.  
Remember this, this score system means nothing if score means nothing to the player.  You take it as FACT no matter what you see.
Some of you will never know, since these players dont choose to fight YOUR fight and fly to 20k and fight someone that will choose to run to buds, or dive to ack, or avoid a death at all cost when an advantage is placed on them even during a 1 on 1,  thats not a fight.  We all seen these players, they will avoid the fight with a passion if a threat of them getting shot down arises.  Period.  You know who some of these guys are as well as the rest of us.  You cant deny that people want to fight, but the instant someone has an advantage especially if its over a higher ranking guy, their ghost.  

So who is avoiding a fight?  Its been shown over and over again that usually when your dealing with someone that cares about their score, they wont fight unless its an absolute advantage, by ALT, by E, by numbers (horde),, Yes there are fighter hordes too,,,  so in a furball, who usually is at the highest altitude?  higher ranking players.... Am I wrong?    They climb out for a sector and a half come back in and look for the easy picks where others are engaged in 1v1.  Am I wrong?

So when you say that someone is avoiding a fight, you cant be more wrong, they just dont want to be bullied or pad someones score because they have to fight a fight only when they have a disadvantage.  

IMO, As for NOE's, they are effective.  Usually the ones that dont care about score are in them, why?  k/d dont mean anything to them.  Most can still fly and handle their own in a 1 on 1, but most of you wouldnt know that, some of you are never alone yourself to find out because your at the safe harbor of your friendly dar in a furball.  More often than not most of us are out and alone fighting not in base take mode but looking for a good fight.  Its very hard to find 2v2's 3v3's or even 5v3's with or without advantage.  But I dont take any pride in RTB'ing with someone on my six, I am usually in it till one of us is shot down.  THATS the true SCORE, who will fight to the death.  

Venture out and look for a fight, I find them all the time.  ALONE.    Fly something that cant go 25k, Shooting down TBM's all day with a TEMP has got to get old, but its not about that, its about having the advantage at all cost and your precious k/d.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2009, 10:02:45 AM by Dadsguns »


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Offline The Fugitive

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Re: Defining bad game-play
« Reply #273 on: April 21, 2009, 10:18:14 AM »
Your assuming that ANYONE involved in missions or with a k/d (more deaths than kills) cant fight or have skill?  Your wrong.  There are many facets to playing this game and some of these guys are rather good.  
Remember this, this score system means nothing if score means nothing to the player.  You take it as FACT no matter what you see.
Some of you will never know, since these players dont choose to fight YOUR fight and fly to 20k and fight someone that will choose to run to buds, or dive to ack, or avoid a death at all cost when an advantage is placed on them even during a 1 on 1,  thats not a fight.  We all seen these players, they will avoid with the fight with a passion if a threat of them getting shot down arises.  Period.  You know who some of these guys are as well as the rest of us.  You cant deny that people want to fight, but the instant someone has an advantage especially if its over a higher ranking guy, their ghost.  

So who is avoiding a fight?  Its been shown over and over again that usually when your dealing with someone that cares about their score, they wont fight unless its an absolute advantage, by ALT, by E, by numbers (horde),, Yes there are fighter hordes too,,,  so in a furball, who usually is at the highest altitude?  higher ranking players.... Am I wrong?    They climb out for a sector and a half come back in and look for the easy picks where others are engaged in 1v1.  Am I wrong?

So when you say that someone is avoiding a fight, you cant be more wrong, they just dont want to be bullied or pad someones score because they have to fight a fight only when they have a disadvantage.  

IMO, As for NOE's, they are effective.  Usually the ones that dont care about score are in them, why?  k/d dont mean anything to them.  Most can still fly and handle their own in a 1 on 1, but most of you wouldnt know that, some of you are never alone yourself to find out because your at the safe harbor of your friendly dar in a furball.  More often than not most of us are out and alone fighting not in base take mode but looking for a good fight.  Its very hard to find 2v2's 3v3's or even 5v3's with or without advantage.  But I dont take any pride in RTB'ing with someone on my six, I am usually in it till one of us is shot down.  THATS the true SCORE, who will fight to the death.  

Venture out and look for a fight, I find them all the time.  ALONE.    Fly something that cant go 25k, Shooting down TBM's all day with a TEMP has got to get old, but its not about that, its about having the advantage at all cost and your precious k/d.


Yes the scoring is.... well different, but used as a general ruler its easy to see what type of player and what kind of skill they have. I used k/d because its an easy one to maintain, you kill one guy before you die, not to tough. But to make you happy look at the hit % under the "attack" mode of those players. It shows most of them can't hit what they are aiming at with bombs. Again, no need to learn how to do it dead on each time, 6 other guys are assigned the same target so someone else is bound to get lucky. Dive bombing isn't that tough to learn, an hour or so in your favorite plane and you'll be hitting 90% of the time when you drop.

The horde is their crutch. They don't have to learn to fight in a fighter because odds are good someone will get the lone attacked before they can get to them inside the group. They don't have to learn to dive bomb because dropping 12 1k bombs in and around a hanger is just as good as one guy hitting with both of his.

Skilled players don't fly at 20k. Most fighting happens from 10k and down, so that is where you'll find them. Those players that circle over a furball are those no confidence, or point mongers. But even then, these guys are fighting, even if it is on their terms. Those that hide in the horde know they can't handle a fight so they hide. In the old days this use to bring about a certain drive in a person... the will to want to get better. Today they don't seem to have the will to get better, because...what the heck, they are capturing base after base now... What could be better?

NOEs are effective YES I have said it a million times. The reason they are effective is because you have 3 minutes from the time dar starts flashing to drop what your doing and run over there before the capture is done. The point is it shouldn't be ALL ABOUT THE CAPTURE. The game is combat, not capture. At the end of the day it doesn't matter how many bases you "own" because when you log in the next day it will all be different again. The one thing that should always be there is combat. Yes you can find small pockets with even fights, but those are become to few and far between. Hordes are becoming the norm because today's player want instant satisfaction, and with the big learning curve of this game the only way to quick satisfaction is the horde because skill is NOT a pre-requisite.

If a group of 6 to 10 "skilled" players put together a squad and made it their mission to bust up "hordes" and lame play didn't bother them, what do you think would happen? Spies would tell then where they were upping, and where they were going. The "Super Shark" squad would roll in and decimate any horde due to the lack of skills in the horde, and they would return to base landing hundreds of kills a night. You know it would be a blast for the killers, clubbing baby seals all night and laughing about it. I'm thinking it wouldn't be that much fun for the "horde" flyer tho. I'm thinking they would get pretty tired of getting killed all the time. Tired of not capturing that base again and again. Pretty frustrated with their "leaders" for not solving this problem for them.... cause you know they can't do it by them selves.

You know why you don't see that type of game play? Because most of the "skilled players" wouldn't use "spy information" because they couldn't care less about what "the other side is doing". In most cases they would spend the next 15 minutes trash talking the "spy" on the radio for being lame. They also wouldn't team up like that because they look for people who fight, not baby seals. There is no challenge killing baby seals, so no fun.

The horde is going to kill this game. It caused the arena spit and I'm sure there will be more things to come from it. You want to fly and grab land with 50 of your closest friends go for it, but sent 8 to one base 4 each in two groups as sweeps, 12 on another base, 5 on a porking run, 5 as high cap at the main target, and have the other 12 stand by 15 minutes to be the second wave at each of the bases your attacking. You still have your missions, your still working as a group, your still fighting for your country, your still actively trying to grab bases, but you ARE NOT A HORDE.

Offline LYNX

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Re: Defining bad game-play
« Reply #274 on: April 21, 2009, 11:03:17 AM »
SNIP


As for lynx saying he is seeing MORE of these missions, Your out of touch or your making it up, As for Bish goes, I see less of these missions than the last several years and many longtime bish will agree with that.  I do recall seeing many missions posted over and over with missions in the past, there is nowhere near that amount going on now.

Maybe running them more often and at the same pace as the past will jog your memory and give you a warm and fuzzy.


 :rolleyes:  You know something dads?  I wonder sometimes if English is your first language.  Your reading skills or lack of  comprehension is tiresome.  I know your language is based on mine and that some words mean different things on the other side of the pond (see dictionary in sig) but where on earth have you confused the words "over kill missions" and "missions".  I mean really!  Take a deep breath, slow down, put your glasses on if you have to and read my previous posts properly.

I'm not posting here about "mission" per sa (spelling).  I'm posting about "over kill missions" in context to the OP thread about poor game play, to places like ports and vbases.  As much as you've confused or dismissed that FACT my observations stand true.  As your good bud thndregg will testify. 

You Sir need to read more slowly.

Following quotes by me.

Quote
The very first reply in this whole thread just about sums things up.   It's over kill on a vbase.  An eastern block mentality to a game.  Lets have a closer look.

Quote
Now getting back to the fun part.  How much fun would it be for you if I was to take a bloody minded attitude to capturing all your vbases / ports with 20+ man missions?   How much fun is it going to be in here in 2 years time when these stupid over kill missions become the norm?  Are you going to bail your ride to up a wirlie against 20+ fully loaded P47's or are you going to have your FUN and stick with what you were doing?  <not a trick question>

Quote
Bomb n bail.  Pork n auger.  Suiciding bombers on cv's.  Carpet bombing gvs.  Have all become to common an occurrence.  It's frowned upon by the majority but still occurs.  Don't let these over kill mission become common occurrence too.  It'll be the down fall of an otherwise enjoyable FUN game for ALL of us.

Quote
I have no objections to missions or the occasional NOE missions.  I'm a strat player like yourself.  What I object to is these rather pathetic skilless over kill missions that have been occurring of late.  I say of late because that's bang on.  I'm not sat here saying "in ye olden days it was like this blah blah".  I've been here since 2002 and the only time I witnessed a mission like these was over 4 years ago.  A 30 man Lgay mission by, of all people, GHI.  The first eastern block mission planner   

These types of over kill missions are becoming a little to frequent.  I would hate them to become acceptable.  I would loath them to be adapted by all sides.  I think there bad for game play on the whole but using your Hitech example neither of us know what their thinking.  So lets hypothesis.  Say they do change something like making the mission planner have a maximum of 12 players per mission from any given field.  What would you do then.  Roll with the punches as in the case of ENY, split arenas, the same small maps for months on end.  Would you adapt or just say "oh heck the games not fun anymore.  I'm outta here"

See the underlining theme here "OVER KILL MISSION"...not your poxy every day mission win or fail.  I'm talking 20+ to a vbase / port.  If you don't see that as over kill.  If you don't see that as detrimentle to the game.   Talk about out of touch....dude you take the biscuit.


P.S whats a warm and fuzzy?

P.P.S whats this then?  An every day mission, Scotch mist or over kill.

 



 
« Last Edit: April 21, 2009, 11:36:39 AM by LYNX »

Offline Dadsguns

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Re: Defining bad game-play
« Reply #275 on: April 21, 2009, 12:34:55 PM »
I'm not posting here about "mission" per sa (spelling).  I'm posting about "over kill missions" in context to the OP thread about poor game play, to places like ports and vbases.  As much as you've confused or dismissed that FACT my observations stand true.  As your good bud thndregg will testify. 

See the underlining theme here "OVER KILL MISSION"...not your poxy every day mission win or fail.  I'm talking 20+ to a vbase / port.  If you don't see that as over kill.  If you don't see that as detrimentle to the game.   Talk about out of touch....dude you take the biscuit.

"Dude", um if thats how you prefer, Any mission that you would consider to be overkill can only be justified upon arrival of a base, having too little to accomplish or too many to accomplish the goal in said mission can be dictated by the unknown.  That unknown is dictated by the resistance encountered.  So, high en site is 20/20, knowing if it was overkill is something determined after the fact. 

Bases can be taken with as little as 1 to as many as infinite, its dictated by the resistance or potential of resistance of what may be encountered. 

This snapshot has been used many times, and I for one was not involved and am not aware of the outcome of that mission. However, had I been I would have attacked the remaining bases in that area, if this was the result of this mission, bravo for them, if it wasnt then its was a poor use of the resources that mission planner had. Nothing more.


These types of over kill missions are becoming a little to frequent.  I would hate them to become acceptable. 

There is nothing wrong with my engrish, I pretty much understood what you said here, that they are becoming a little to frequent, Again, my comment stated the opposite.  You still disagree?   I will post it for you.....

As for lynx saying he is seeing MORE of these missions, Your out of touch or your making it up, As for Bish goes, I see less of these missions than the last several years and many longtime bish will agree with that.  I do recall seeing many missions posted over and over with missions in the past, there is nowhere near that amount going on now.

Maybe running them more often and at the same pace as the past will jog your memory and give you a warm and fuzzy.

So which is it, out of touch, or just making it up, your comprehension?   :lol
« Last Edit: April 21, 2009, 12:38:45 PM by Dadsguns »


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Offline WMLute

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Re: Defining bad game-play
« Reply #276 on: April 21, 2009, 01:07:42 PM »
"Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity."
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Offline waystin2

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Re: Defining bad game-play
« Reply #277 on: April 21, 2009, 01:09:18 PM »
So the horde complaints have now spawned political cartoon artists?  Falcon sir, your fame is growing!

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Offline Dadsguns

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Re: Defining bad game-play
« Reply #278 on: April 21, 2009, 01:15:59 PM »

Cute, You could actually plug many different things into that cartoon,,,,, But way to go Falcon, you have officially hit the Bigtime....  :lol


Riddle me this one......




« Last Edit: April 21, 2009, 01:21:33 PM by Dadsguns »


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Offline waystin2

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Re: Defining bad game-play
« Reply #279 on: April 21, 2009, 01:22:37 PM »
Cute, You could actually plug many different things into that cartoon,,,,, But way to go Falcon, you have officially hit the Bigtime....  :lol


Riddle me this one......


(Image removed from quote.)



Nope you can't hear it! :rofl
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Offline Dadsguns

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Re: Defining bad game-play
« Reply #280 on: April 21, 2009, 01:24:21 PM »
Nope you can't hear it! :rofl

 :rofl

True, but not what I had in mind, a little more deeper than that.......    :rofl


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Offline Dadsguns

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Re: Defining bad game-play
« Reply #281 on: April 21, 2009, 01:31:17 PM »



Think of it like this.   You ever seen what appears to be a tall, strong, tree near a river bed or lake, the tree seems healthy and strong with its roots firmly planted in the ground, eventually over time its roots become exposed, and over more time the gentle waves splash upon the roots slowly but surely eroding and exposing the roots of that massive tree.  Eventually the soil is gone to an extent that the big ol tree cannot sustain its posture and it falls to the effects of the gentle waves below. 

Some of these Long Standing players that have grown to be this Tall overbearing tree are withering slowly but surely to the waves of change.  They don't like it, they sense it, but cant do anything about it.  The root of their arguments are getting weaker and weaker, and sure enough it wont be long till they fall.   ;)




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Offline thndregg

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Re: Defining bad game-play
« Reply #282 on: April 21, 2009, 01:33:12 PM »
I couldn't wait. In my old job, I used a chainsaw and a chipper.
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Offline mechanic

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Re: Defining bad game-play
« Reply #283 on: April 21, 2009, 01:36:10 PM »
Oh i get it!

The tree is V192, toppled under the weight of many heroes. The forrest in the background represents the multitude of other bases to be captured, running endlessly into the distance. The water is obviously there to facilitate easier NOE flying without the risk of tree strikes.

very profound, i like it Dads :D
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Offline waystin2

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Re: Defining bad game-play
« Reply #284 on: April 21, 2009, 01:38:13 PM »
Egads!  I was thinking quite shallow! :lol  I understand your point Dad.  It has grown quite tiresome.  I do know this...The only constant thing in life is change.  You either embrace it, or you can try to fight it until it grinds you under.  There is no disrespect meant to any of these folks, but the way things were, will never be again.
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