Author Topic: Please Fix the IL-2 37mm Accuracy  (Read 6214 times)

Offline shreck

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Re: Please Fix the IL-2 37mm Accuracy
« Reply #30 on: June 23, 2009, 03:13:25 PM »
The accuracy of the IL-2 with 37mm needs to be fixed.  It is far too accurate as currently modeled.  Based on historical documentation it was impossible to hit a target with any accuracy using sustained fire of more than 2-3 shells at a time. The current model allows for sustained fire with no accuracy penalty for the massive jolting that occurs when the cannons are fired in long bursts.

"Proving ground trials carried out at NII AV VVS KA (this abbreviation means 'Science Lab of the Air Force of Red Army'), showed that firing of the NS-37 in the IL-2 was to be done in short controlled bursts-no more than 2-3 shells a burst. This was to be done in accordance with the fact that the cannons were not synchronized to fire together -resulting in massive jolting of the aircraft which disrupted the aircraft's line of fire. The correction of fire was possible in this case."

See link for more information and supporting documentation:
http://www.battlefield.ru/content/view/239/123/lang,en/





Just remove F3 view for it = FIXED  :aok

Offline moot

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Re: Please Fix the IL-2 37mm Accuracy
« Reply #31 on: June 23, 2009, 03:21:00 PM »
Just change ROT fire in one gun.....or generate randon delay between each firing.
If the historical ROF disparity was from manufacturing variations, the best way would be a random ROF for each gun, each time you roll a new plane. Some arbitrary value that matches those reports.
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Offline waystin2

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Re: Please Fix the IL-2 37mm Accuracy
« Reply #32 on: June 24, 2009, 07:28:14 AM »
Just remove F3 view for it = FIXED  :aok

I do not feel that the F3 view has any bearing on this.
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Offline shreck

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Re: Please Fix the IL-2 37mm Accuracy
« Reply #33 on: June 24, 2009, 11:21:17 AM »
I do not feel that the F3 view has any bearing on this.

Actually it does! You see the 360 degree view allows for extremely unrealistic SA, allowing the F3 user to EASILY adjust to threats creating extremely unrealistic opportunities for overshoots and misdirection! Without F3 view the il2 would be a hangar queen and hardly used unless heavily protected by separation or fighter escort, which incidently would be very relistic :aok. The accuracy of the guns would mean nothing  :aok
IMHO F3 view takes this game one step closer to being nothing more than a low end arcade shooter, and I wish wish wish it would be addressed!   :pray  It's just dumb  :aok


Please make F3 view available for bombers with at least 2 defencive gun positions only, not including forward firing weapons  :aok
« Last Edit: June 24, 2009, 11:34:51 AM by shreck »

Offline waystin2

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Re: Please Fix the IL-2 37mm Accuracy
« Reply #34 on: June 24, 2009, 11:37:41 AM »
Actually it does! You see the 360 degree view allows for extremely unrealistic SA, allowing the F3 user to EASILY adjust to threats creating extremely unrealistic opportunities for overshoots and misdirection! Without F3 view the il2 would be a hangar queen and hardly used unless heavily protected by separation or fighter escort  :aok The accuracy of the guns would mean nothing  :aok
IMHO F3 view takes this game one step closer to being nothing more than a low end arcade shooter, and I wish wish wish it would be addressed!   :pray  It's just dumb  :aok


Please make F3 view available for bombers with at least 2 defencive gun positions only, not including forward firing weapons  :aok

I got ya Shreck.  I do agree.  If it is to be flown in a fighter type role, no F3 view for you. If HTC chooses to correct the model, then they can get you to overshoot as much as you like because the accuracy of the guns for the spray & pray crowd will be out the window.  The guys to be feared would be the fellows that use it more like a tater, and only need a few shots to whack you.
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Offline usvi

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Re: Please Fix the IL-2 37mm Accuracy
« Reply #35 on: June 24, 2009, 12:04:18 PM »
Actually it does! You see the 360 degree view allows for extremely unrealistic SA, allowing the F3 user to EASILY adjust to threats creating extremely unrealistic opportunities for overshoots and misdirection! Without F3 view the il2 would be a hangar queen and hardly used unless heavily protected by separation or fighter escort, which incidently would be very relistic :aok. The accuracy of the guns would mean nothing  :aok
IMHO F3 view takes this game one step closer to being nothing more than a low end arcade shooter, and I wish wish wish it would be addressed!   :pray  It's just dumb  :aok


Please make F3 view available for bombers with at least 2 defencive gun positions only, not including forward firing weapons  :aok
I totally agree :aok
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Offline shreck

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Re: Please Fix the IL-2 37mm Accuracy
« Reply #36 on: June 24, 2009, 12:33:13 PM »
I got ya Shreck.  I do agree.  If it is to be flown in a fighter type role, no F3 view for you. If HTC chooses to correct the model, then they can get you to overshoot as much as you like because the accuracy of the guns for the spray & pray crowd will be out the window.  The guys to be feared would be the fellows that use it more like a tater, and only need a few shots to whack you.

Maybe the answer is, make it so you cannot shoot fwd firing guns in F3 view and put a small time delay from switching between views  :aok

Wastin I agree with you that the guns are too uber, but I think it is the issue of F3 view more than anything else! just my opinion   :salute

Offline Lusche

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Re: Please Fix the IL-2 37mm Accuracy
« Reply #37 on: June 24, 2009, 01:10:25 PM »
F3 view has no influence on accuracy, penetration or ROF. I don't even see a vision advantage in using it when shooting enemy gv's..
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Offline shreck

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Re: Please Fix the IL-2 37mm Accuracy
« Reply #38 on: June 24, 2009, 01:37:09 PM »
F3 view has no influence on accuracy, penetration or ROF. I don't even see a vision advantage in using it when shooting enemy gv's..

Hmm, I may have misinterpreted the original post as in accuracy vs aircraft! 

Actually I've probably just got a burr under my saddle for F3 view  :D

I do believe locating and fixing GV position is greatly enhance by F3 view!

Offline waystin2

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Re: Please Fix the IL-2 37mm Accuracy
« Reply #39 on: June 24, 2009, 01:39:33 PM »
Hmm, I may have misinterpreted the original post as in accuracy vs aircraft! 

I do believe locating and fixing GV position is greatly enhance by F3 view!

Actually I tried to keep it neutral as the gun issue will affect how they attack GV's as well as dogfight.  As far as the F3 view, I say create another wish Sir.  A lot of us do support your line of thought.
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Offline Wmaker

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Re: Please Fix the IL-2 37mm Accuracy
« Reply #40 on: June 24, 2009, 02:53:39 PM »
The guns weren't syncronised and the Soviets themselves found out that in order for the guns to be remotely succesfull, they should be syncronized and muzzle breaks should be installed to reduce recoil. In Soviet studies it was found that 52% of the hits with the NS-37 rendered a medium tank out of service, and 73% of hits did the same for a light tank. However, hits were only scored on 43% of combat sorties and the ratio of hits to ammunition spent totalled 3%. To destroy a heavy tank like a Tiger the turret roof or the engine compartment had to be hit from an angle of 45-50 degree. The was something majority of the IL-2 pilots could not do.

Just a sidenote...

IL-2 3Ms (NS-37 armed m3s) were first fielded in the august of '43. Total of 96 NS-37 armed IL-2s made combat sorties during these service tests. The pilots who took part of these service trials stated that the aircraft armed with the NS-37s had worse maneuverability and controllability and that those facts made counterflak maneuvers, attack runs and aiming more difficult. The same pilots thought that despite the high efficiency of the NS-37 an IL-2 armed with them was not superior to the VYs-23 armed aircraft as far as combat cababilities were concerned.

As a result of these unfavourable experiences during these service trials on 12th November '43 the State Defence Commitee ordered the series production of the NS-37 armed IL-2 to be terminated.

(Source: ILJUSIN Il-2, ILYUSHIN IL-2 ATTACK AIRCRAFT by Oleg Rastrenin, ISBN 978-80-87161-02-9)

So it was used in combat on service trials only and the trials proved to be unsuccesful and the production was terminated. When compared to the other planes/loadouts there are in AH, it's IMO pretty clear that the NS-37 loadout for IL-2 is hardly AH-material. Wether Pyro was aware of these facts when he implemeted the loadout for AH I'm not sure.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2009, 02:56:18 PM by Wmaker »
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Offline Karnak

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Re: Please Fix the IL-2 37mm Accuracy
« Reply #41 on: June 24, 2009, 02:57:08 PM »
So it was used in combat on service trials only and the trials proved to be unsuccesful and the production was terminated. When compared to the other planes/loadouts there are in AH, it's IMO pretty clear that the NS-37 loadout for IL-2 is hardly AH-material. Wether Pyro was aware of these facts when he implemeted the loadout for AH I'm not sure.
That being true, I'd say it would be a perk loadout, but still valid.
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Offline BnZs

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Re: Please Fix the IL-2 37mm Accuracy
« Reply #42 on: June 24, 2009, 11:39:15 PM »
Oh, let us be honest about it.

We have the NS-37 on the Il2 as a counter to one or two kamikaze attackers simply banging down the VH on an airbase, strafing down ords with a 190, then rolling gv's onto the base or town with no realistic way for the defenders to oppose them.

Now it seems to me the crux of this problem is the fact that one suicide strafer can take down ords so easily in the first place, but that is not the area they chose to address in terms of fixes.

« Last Edit: June 24, 2009, 11:41:10 PM by BnZs »
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Offline BnZs

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Re: Please Fix the IL-2 37mm Accuracy
« Reply #43 on: June 24, 2009, 11:40:50 PM »
That being true, I'd say it would be a perk loadout, but still valid.

Using rarity as a criterion for perkage is a can of worms. I mean, the Ta-152 was about as rare as anything we have in-game, but does not deserve to be perked.
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Offline B4Buster

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Re: Please Fix the IL-2 37mm Accuracy
« Reply #44 on: June 24, 2009, 11:45:48 PM »
I wouldn't normally agree to something like this unless the modeling for all guns would be changed...however; the 37mm is extremely deadly. I don't GV much, so I don't have it used against me really, but I love killing GVs with ease with it. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure it was deadly in real life, but not lazer - guided like it is here. Whether it is changed or not, I don't really care. I DO think it should be given some consideration though.

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