My god would you please quit with the arena crap Hitech!

[Spikes]

There are NO arena caps between 12 midnight and 12 noon HTC local time.  Therefore, off hours, anyone can fly anywhere they want to.

Seems like the caps flux up to 3-4AM Est...

[AWwrgwy]

Seems like the caps flux up to 3-4AM Est...

When the arenas switch from a static cap of 400 to a dynamic cap, there will always be a period of time where one arena is going to have far more in it than the cap is set to.  It happens at 12 noon CST, everyday.

wrongway

[hitech]

What sucks worse than 1 arena is having two arenas and being told you have to go to the crappy one with a giant map.

This is what I was calling BS on, and is why I do not even really do not even take your points as valid. The arenas are the same , and the terrain set is the same. When the basis of your argument is BS (like the terrain) and can only post screen shots of worst case scenarios of time frames, then you will not be taken seriously by me.

Is also why I no longer take DamedRen serriously

It was fun but AH2 is much more enjoyable, IMHO. Great folks, a few morons (read CM#2), great game. Now if they would just fix the LW setup we'd be in business. Don't misunderstand me...2 arenas is fine...just one uncapped would be nice Smiley

Ren

He just blatantly ignores and tries to hide the fact that the net effect of what he ask for is one arena with a large population that is the basic problem of why the caps were introduced in the first place.

and again this

I'm still trying to understand how gameplay suffered from too many players. HiTech said its we can handle 1000 without software changes. Hmmmm. software changes....growth? Limit growth? He did mention 200/country channel issues, didn't he?  But not a software issue? I brought up ebb and flow of player base. Is there really a limit to the number of people that will come and play?
Is equipment a limit. If you look at WOW what does a player have to bring to the table to play? A $300 joystick setup? His computer is it? This game requires a committment to play a combat flight sim. Yet we have tank wars. And lots of folks play it. Do you have to have an expensive joystick setup to fight a tank battle? or run a bombing mission? Remember the contest to name the "new" game of total air battle. You get to start as a 2nd Looey? How many people did someone say it could handle? 1000? Yet I thought we'd still have other arenas. I wonder that we already have a ground war and bomber war along with our normal dogfighting, what marketing is happening to draw a tank war crowd? Yes, this is a flight combat game. But you could attract more since we already have it. No?
Have we reached the limit without software updates? If so then we have nothing more to say because that is HTC's decision to move forward or stay where they are as that is purely financial.

Personally I don't want to ever see anyone leave this game because of perceived notions of bad game play or not being able to undestand why the need for any arena caps. We have players who get frustrated from not progressing at a pace they'd like to. That's just a training issue, nothing more. We can fix that if they ask. Anyone can learn to avoid a HO or how to have a fun dogfight.
I'd like to see the game continue to grow with more and more players.

As I've read from HT himself, we could have lost AH? I have yet to hear a definitive why. Did 1000 people threaten to leave because they didn't like it? Why? It doesn't make sense to me. All I think most folks are asking for is 2+2 = 4 not we know what you want so don't try and tell us what you want.

Last thing. If they reached a limit no one can ever fault them for not taking what they have and continuing to add more to whats there for players to use. Look at the updates. The more stuff the more interesting and the more diverse the game becomes for exisitng and new players.

He just wants to ignore all real facts. And likes to make statements like assuming what HE wants is what MOST players want.

Simple not refutable facts.

1. Before arena split AH was not longer growing.

2. After arena split AH started growing fast than it ever had.

Now there really is only 1 reason for this, more people are having fun, and thus subscribe.

and then key statements like this.

As I've read from HT himself, we could have lost AH? I have yet to hear a definitive why. Did 1000 people threaten to leave because they didn't like it? Why? It doesn't make sense to me. All I think most folks are asking for is 2+2 = 4 not we know what you want so don't try and tell us what you want.

Does it make any real difference why? Game play issues I will discuss, but do I really need to discuss all HTC's financial's ?

There seems to be a rather even split between the people who think the arena caps is detrmimental to gameplay and those who think it is not.
I've suggested it is, and notible individuals such as Assi, DMBear Steve and other have had the same opinion. Then theres the other side, moot, lute and such.
I've played a few games in my short lifetime (I'm 24 currently) but growing up in the middle east meant that it was too hot most of the year to play outside so I would be hardcore multiplayer gaming with my other western buddies click. I haven't come across a game that has hooked me as much as this one yet thought, and it is mostly attested to the multiplayer aspect of it. I simply see the arena caps as inhibiting that aspect because when I want to play with all those people in orange, I can't.
I'm not one to influence hi techs business decisions but think that finding more ways of having many players in a single arena (maybe enhancing ground war and sea war ) without creating a slum-like environment would be the better solution. This would dilute the skies of many new players (ground war is easier) but still keep their interest and therefor preserve and enhance business. Clearly, the cap system in my view was the easier way out to enhance business without much effort from the companies side.
No offence HiTech, but since this thread has a lot of 'Lets get straight to the point' I'm doing that also.

Yet, I still want smaller new maps in LWB as a good alternative to playing with alot of people. Waaaaaa 

Saantaa: Agree with your sentiment, but what you do not realize is that every thing we could think of was tried.

Clearly, the cap system in my view was the easier way out to enhance business without much effort from the companies side.

But this statement is utter BS. Just because you wish something could work, does not mean it will work. You make extreme assumptions

first

've suggested it is, and notible individuals such as Assi, DMBear Steve and other have had the same opinion. Then theres the other side, moot, lute and such.

Makes each side of the argument equal. Refer to my simple 2 facts to understand the 2 sides of the argument are not equal. People vote with there $ . Your only trying to talk theoretical, and have posted no new ideas, other than.

It would be better if we changed to 1 arena and come up with a new idea that everyone would like.  This is equivalent to saying

It would be better if we came up with a new energy source that did not pollute did not cost anything and was completely renewable. 
Or more on topic.
It would be better if we would come up with a way to make all people happy the split arenas.

I.E. to all of these thoughts most people would say.

Well Duhhhhhh. I.E. you are just stating the obvious.


HiTech

[HB555]

Seems to me that htc has more resources and ways of looking at things that work for them, which translates into more game for us. Want a quick look at what happens when companies try to please everyone to the detriment of the company? I refer you to General Motors, as a starting place.
htc has the final word anyhow, so we can live with what they give us and enjoy it, or be among the few who are disgruntled.
Personally, I will take what they give us, and enjoy it, regardless of what is going on. I am not thrilled with some of the things hitech has implemented, but if it works for them to keep us flying, so be it.
The statement (paraphrased) that they wanted to stay a small company and make the best game possible seems to be true, and God bless them for all the hours of enjoyment and frustration they have provided.

(Spell check is cool, but to limited. An add word feature sure would be great.) 

[DamnedRen]

Simple not refutable facts.
1. Before arena split AH was not longer growing.
2. After arena split AH started growing fast than it ever had.
Now there really is only 1 reason for this, more people are having fun, and thus subscribe.

1st of all it's CM#1, I figure Steve isn't clueless...

Have a nice weekend? I been without power on and off since I got home on Sunday. Come to find out a Tornado hit our town.

The only questions that has never been answered are these. There are different arena's. People go to different arenas which please them.
I understand that is not refutable.

Before split AH was not growing. After arena split it's growing? Not refutable...

Don't the same people still go into the arena of their choice? With the exception of the LW arenas? You get the same small group in EW and MW. You have roughly the same numbers in the DA? There is FSO and scenarios. Even a TA for new folks to learn.

IF and I say IF Blue ends up being overflow for most folks trying to get into Orange except for a small group that prefer a small fight with a very limited number of people but still want to use LW planes, isn't HTC already giving them that? If they don't want to fly in Orange no one is asking them to fly there. They can go Blue as they wish. You say yourself both are identical. The only difference is the number of people.

Why would it be so farfetched to believe that if the number of Orange participants grew because they wanted to fly in a large arena yet the Blue remained available for those people who want to have fun fighting a smaller group and still have the other arenas for their use?

Finally, why, those who would leave because of no split have no reason to leave because there is a split arena and they have a choice of which one they wish to fly in?

It would make sense if everyone is happy then no one leaves unless RL hits them between the eye. It also makes sense that people will  continue to come to the game begin to learn, eventually chose what suits them in game play and do it.

It's a WIN-WIN situation and no where did I personally either thru deception or otherwise say ONE ARENA ONLY. Two are fine, just why the CAP?

Your response is also irrefutable...Because if there was an unlimited CAP on one of the arenas everyone would go there!!! That's not my statement for 1 arena. It's yours. If everyone wants to be there then people leave. That's also your statement. WHAT!!!!

That is WHY I'M confused! If everyone is happy why would there be a loss of people to the game???

To put it Johnny Cochrans immortal words, "it just don't make sense".

[qoute]Does it make any real difference why? Game play issues I will discuss, but do I really need to discuss all HTC's financial's ?[/quote]

I would hope no one is interested in HTC from a personal finance point of view as its no ones biz, other than it continues to operate. IF it requires additional capitol to grow the game to make for uncapped arenas everywhere it would MAKE SENSE to delay the expenditures giving the Countries monetary troubles. IF that was the case it, too, is no ones business...

To say capping promotes growth is kind of like dealing in opposites. Cap indicates putting a limit on something. Grow indicates expansion. The two would appear to be mutually exclusive....

CM#1

[hitech]

Once again Ren, you completely ignore the concept of the herd.

HiTech

[DamnedRen]

Once again Ren, you completely ignore the concept of the herd.

HiTech

I wish I was... but the question remains...if everyone gets what they want (hopefully at no extra expense to HTC) what difference does it make if one arena has a herd as long as the other arena is identical and allows those who don't wish to take part in the herd mentality a place to go? The herd people do their thing. If someone in there doesn't like it no big deal they can still go and fly the same, same everything without the herd. They don't bug out of the game. they continue to have fun. More people continue to find and come to the game. They too learn and finally chose the arena that suits them.

I find it hard to understand how it would conflict with growth within the game.

In fact, ( I know this won't happen however.....) why not change the names of the Arena's. Maybe Orange could be called "The Great Horde" or The Big One", and Blue maybe....  Late War Excellence...Have a naming contest! But, the name would tell everyone what they could expect in there. The only limit would be just how fast you might grow...

I am in no way trying to undermine the great game of AH2. I'm only thinking out loud, in discussion, to see how far it CAN go. Not limit arenas for those who want in.  I never want to see anyone leave the game. I've been playing it for a long time now and go out of my way to work with anyone who wants it to allow them to have a more enjoyable game play. Hopefully they will be staying in the game for years to come.

CM#1
aka Ren

[grizz441]

Assume both arenas are uncapped...

During Primetime if orange has 600 players and Blue has 200... before long Orange will have 650, blue will have 150.  There's always the desire to fly where everybody else is flying.  It's just human nature.  Then Orange will have 700, Blue will have 100.  All of a sudden there aren't enough players in Blue to have reasonable fun so they all flock to orange.  Orange 800 Blue 0. 

I think this is the 'herd concept' HiTech refers to.

[RufusLeaking]

Assume both arenas are uncapped...

During Primetime if orange has 600 players and Blue has 200... before long Orange will have 650, blue will have 150.  There's always the desire to fly where everybody else is flying.  It's just human nature.  Then Orange will have 700, Blue will have 100.  All of a sudden there aren't enough players in Blue to have reasonable fun so they all flock to orange.  Orange 800 Blue 0. 

I think this is the 'herd concept' HiTech refers to.

I go to Orange when able because it has the most people. 

Moo.

[Belial]

Late war orange is for some reason the preferred arena no matter what the map is.  Once in the year i've been playing did I see blue more full than orange.  I think what Rens saying is you dont need to eliminate orange and blue.  Rather make orange unlimited, but also offer Blue as an escape from the titanic Tuesday sized orange arena.

     .BeLiAL.






P.S.
You could actually add Late War Magenta with a favorable ground game map to make the 33% of players happy who gv 90% of the time.  This may sound crazy but I really think alot of players would enjoy a large TT map to play on as their 3rd alternative.  

[Motherland]

Late war orange is for some reason the preferred arena no matter what the map is.  Once in the year i've been playing did I see blue fuller than orange.  I think what Rens saying is you dont need to eliminate orange and blue.  Rather make orange unlimited, but also offer Blue as an escape from the titanic tuesday sized orange arena.

     .BeLiAL.

Orange is always full because when people have the choice they will go to the more populated arena whether or not gameplay is actually better, as HT has said and is easily observed to be true. That's the herd mentality he's talking about.

[grizz441]

Late war orange is for some reason the preferred arena no matter what the map is.  Once in the year i've been playing did I see blue fuller than orange.  I think what Rens saying is you dont need to eliminate orange and blue.  Rather make orange unlimited, but also offer Blue as an escape from the titanic tuesday sized orange arena.
 

If Orange is unlimited, Blue won't have 250-350 people/night that it normally has.  Probably more like 100 with a lot of toolshedders.  Once Orange significantly outnumbers Blue, Blue players will question the quality of their fights and go check out orange.  It's inevitable that the giant unlimited arena will engulf the smaller arena everytime.  What you are left with is a 700+ player Orange arena lagged to hell with frame rates in the 20s, giant hordes everywhere, and complete degradation of game play.  I can't even imagine how difficult it is for the new player to compete in giant furballs and hordes with lag every where.  I'd quit on day 2 if that was the case.  

[hitech]

Assume both arenas are uncapped...

During Primetime if orange has 600 players and Blue has 200... before long Orange will have 650, blue will have 150.  There's always the desire to fly where everybody else is flying.  It's just human nature.  Then Orange will have 700, Blue will have 100.  All of a sudden there aren't enough players in Blue to have reasonable fun so they all flock to orange.  Orange 800 Blue 0. 

I think this is the 'herd concept' HiTech refers to.

Exactly: I.E. The net effect is 1 arena,  and 1 arena over crowded = less customers = not as many people having fun.

To sum it up again   1 arena  = Less people having fun.


HiTech

[1Boner]

Exactly: I.E. The net effect is 1 arena,  and 1 arena over crowded = less customers = not as many people having fun.

To sum it up again   1 arena  = Less people having fun.


HiTech

You have the patience of a Saint. 

[Belial]

I see your point hitech a 3rd arena anywhere ballpark of a possibility as I described?