Author Topic: Jumpin on the P-38 bandwagon (Read 7164 times)

ra · « **on:** November 15, 2001, 08:47:00 PM »

The glass stab needs to be fixed. I hardly ever see P-38's but when I do 2 pings and the stab goes bye-bye. Then the P-38 dance starts: nose pitches up, bellybutton over teakettle, pissed off pilot firing tracers all over the place all the way down to the ground.

More people would fly these things if the stab was held on by something more than duct tape.

ra

Tac · « **Reply #1 on:** November 15, 2001, 09:31:00 PM »

the 38 is the only plane that cant dare to HO a C202. It will lose its stab.

But wait, no other planes have the glass tail problem.. lets just ignore it.

Seeker · « **Reply #2 on:** November 15, 2001, 11:08:00 PM »

Didn't notice a tail weakness in the P38 Wild Wednesday....

funkedup · « **Reply #3 on:** November 15, 2001, 11:36:00 PM »

Had a good look at one a couple of weeks ago. I could wrap my arms around the tail boom. That thing is skinny. Sure looks flimsy.

38isPorked · « **Reply #4 on:** November 16, 2001, 11:31:00 AM »

Heh Seeker. Thats because OTHER 38's were shooting at it (nose package doesnt seem to have the increased punch from being in nose imo).

You're right funked, its thin, but hardly flimsy. It is the weakest part of the plane. But its *amazing* how bullets hit it with such astounding regularity. Not to mention that most non-cannon rounds would just go through it without ripping it. But hey, even a .303 in AH does the job in a ping. *shrug*

Angus · « **Reply #5 on:** November 17, 2001, 07:58:00 AM »

When I fight a P38, I usually try to hose the tail, saw it in half

bolillo_loco · « **Reply #6 on:** November 18, 2001, 12:24:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by funkedup:
I could wrap my arms around the tail boom. That thing is skinny. Sure looks flimsy.

That is odd, everybody keeps saying how big it is and that is why it is so easy to hit

Captain Virgil Hilts · « **Reply #7 on:** November 18, 2001, 08:30:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by bolillo_loco:

That is odd, everybody keeps saying how big it is and that is why it is so easy to hit

That is because they don't know what they are talking about. Funny thing is real pilots from W.W.II and statistic both say the back half of the P-38 was hard to hit. Most, if not all flight sims model the P-38 as a billboard with a bullet magnet for a frame. They make it too easy to hit, and too easy to see. For the truth about the P-38, see the articles at C.C. Jordan's website, "Planes and Pilots of World War II", especially the one entitled "The P-38, is Size and Shape a Disadvantage?" But don't expect anything to change, it's just one of the handicaps that P_38 pilots in sims have to deal with. Oh, and if you've ever seen pictures of what happens to a P-38 in an overspeed dive when compression tries to tear it apart, you'll have even more respect for the toughness of the rear half of a P-38.
Renegade Savage

Tac · « **Reply #8 on:** November 18, 2001, 12:54:00 PM »

Yep. Many pilots came home with the plane's rivets POPPED OUT from the high-g's... One of the leading aces even came back with his tail booms BENT more than 10 degrees from the g-forces.

Overspeed? Heh, why dont you get a P-38 in AH to 30k+ and powerdive the WHOLE way down in a 90 degree dive with WEP on.. you will never ever break 510 mph. The plane will NOT shed wings. Mainly because it WONT go past 510. The 38 would actually go to near 600mph (with high risk of structural failure), but that wasnt a very popular thing to try

.

SFRT - Frenchy · « **Reply #9 on:** November 18, 2001, 05:50:00 PM »

I think that people are very suceptible to stab failure because there is only 1. In the P47, when I loose the stab with 2-3 pings it doesn't bother me that much because I can still fly around. If it was a P38, I would be pissed because it would mean death.
The P38 stab is not more fragile than any other plane but it's the one you notice because there is only one.
that's my thoughts

ra · « **Reply #10 on:** November 18, 2001, 06:45:00 PM »

Frenchy,

You may be getting the stab mixed up with the elevator. I don't think any planes in AH fly with a stab shot off. It just seems like the stab of the P-38 is a bullet magnet, and the plane is very easy to kill. Roughly 3 out of 4 P-38's I've killed were stab kills.

ra

Voss · « **Reply #11 on:** November 18, 2001, 10:15:00 PM »

Every airplane in the MA loses it's stab from time-to-time. This is probably the weakest point on the P-38 (given it's structure over-all), but this is one VERY large airplane. I don't hesitate to attack a P-38 when flying the 262, because I know I can hit it. I'm not so sure of any other fighter, except perhaps the Mozzie.

And, too, when you hear one ping in AH I believe you are actually getting hit with a lot of rounds. Especially, when the gun firing at you is a .50 caliber.

38isPorked · « **Reply #12 on:** November 19, 2001, 11:39:00 AM »

HO a C202 in a 38 Voss. You will lose half the times if the C202 is shooting at you aiming for your nose. The darts it shoots hit the tail stab and whack it off.

The problem is AH's all or nothing damage model. If you think about it, the 38's stab is BIG..but its also ATTACHED to both tails. You can punch big holes or even CUT the stab at any point, the Stab will STILL be there. In AH, any kind of damage rips off the ENTIRE thing (and the irony of it is that once that happens, the 38 flips on itself, giving the pissed off pilot a nice view of his own stab, the WHOLE stab flapping and falling over him!).

I'm more inclined to say that the P-38 TAIL BOOMS were the real weak point of the plane, and it would take a DAMN good hit from MG fire or a CANNON hit to rip it off... and hey, cutting ONE of the tails in half did not guarantee that the entire tail would blow out. There was a P-38 in the Med. that collided with a 109 and had its left tail boom snapped..but the plane made it home because the OTHER tail held in place.

I would ask HTC to MODEL the 38's damage so that EACH tail has its own damage model and the STAB have 2 separate damage models.

Thus, if one tail is hit, depending on how serious it is, it would either break that ONE tail (and make the 38 as hard to keep control of as when you lose a wingtip) or lose control of that tail's rudder (and quite possibly LOSE control of the stab?). The stab should be broken into 2 areas for the damage model.. half of it tied to 1 tail, the other tied to the other tail. Thus, if I get hit on the left side of the stab and it gets shot out, the other half of the stab will still be there (and of course, the associated severe loss of control on the plane because you lost half a stab).

But heck, regardless, im sure everyone agrees the all-or-nothing damage model royally SUCKS.

Steven · « **Reply #13 on:** November 19, 2001, 12:51:00 PM »

I've been recently flying the P38 practicing for my role in the "Big Week" and am liking this plane. In my view, the person named "38" seems to make a pretty good point in his post and I think it is something worth considering.

I do have one question though, and that is I'm wondering if AH roll rates are influenced by torque? That is, do the single engine aircraft roll faster one side vs the other? I recently read how in the Pacific the P38s would generally roll right if an enemy got on his tail because the Japanese planes rolled much slower in that direction due to torque which was something the P38's were not subject to due to counter rotating props.

Toad · « **Reply #14 on:** November 19, 2001, 01:03:00 PM »

I too think the tail section on the P-38 is awfully easy to knock off... too easy.

I'd like to see a more detailed damage model for ALL the aircraft and vehicles but perhaps the present one is so deeply embedded into the programming that this is what we're going to have to live with.

Still, they've shown they can make small changes to the model. I'd say the P-38 tail section deserves another look.