Major complaint....

[Shifty]

Surely you're not saying Ju88s are as hard to catch and kill as B17s are???

Not only are they slower by 25-30mph, but this speed is reached at a max of 17k. They can barely get above 20k loaded, as well. Hardly a fair comparison.

Say that flying a Hurricane during a BOB setup.

As for the warning... The LW had bases, stations, airfields all over France. If the allies wanted to get to Germany they had a long and dangerous path to get there. The allies hardly patrolled over france to defend from incoming attacks on Britian, as well (not to mention most attacks ceased as Germany was almost entirely defensive in the West). I'm not picking a fight on this point. I'm just saying if we wanted to make it "realistic" we'd have 1000 bombers per mission (without slaved laser gunners) flying at max cruise speeds, often with no escorts, or when the escorts (a fraction of the total bombers) were present they could be spread across 500 miles of bomber stream, and the LW would have a turkey shoot most times they took off.

This setup isn't representing raids on Germany it's representing raids on France. You've got good points but they're points everybody has to deal with, because sooner or later everybody flies Axis.
I do agree with one point you made a few post back. Bigger numbers participating in the FSO has not meant a better FSO experiance. I'm off the argument now, I was out of town all last week until Friday and I'm out the door in an hour to go back for another five days of living out of a suit case see you guys Friday night. 

[Krusty]

Our Ju88A-4 showed up after the BOB. It's really a 1941 plane. We don't have any bomber currently in-game that's appropriate for BOB, which is why all the constant cries for He111s, Ju88a1s, Do17s, and even early RAF bombers as well.

I do agree with you on that fact.

[BnZs]

Where do you get this? Some of the best squadrons in AH are Axis and fly FSO example JG-11, and JG-2.  It seems both of those squad were too busy whuppin butt to notice how everything was stacked against them.

Well, everybody is complaining about how the odds are stacked against Axis because of the speed and alt performance of the escort fighters, and some even said "I don't want to show up to be cannon fodder for the Allied planes". My point is, in my neck of the woods, it looked like the only thing the Axis needed were enough warm bodies to make the odds more even.

[theTBone]

First of all I was in a p-38, I believe I was the highest a/c in the vicinity when we were engaged over the city, I was at 29k.  Secondly, it's important to note that the allies slowly achieved air supremacy during WWII due to many factors.  To include: better a/c, better training, and a superior understanding of a/c capabilities.  I've accepted this and therefore when I'm flying for the axis, against an offensive allied force, I normally expect the allies to have an advantage (usually due to the mission design keeping the allied a/c well inside their performance envelope).  Yes it's a bummer, I know this.  However, people have to remember who won the war, and also that this is to be a repeat of a historic engagement.  As long as the design of the campaigns remains this way I recommend that squads tasked in this manner, fight their butts off in a attempt to change the historical outcomes.  I'd personally like to thank the FW-190's and BF-110's that engaged me last night put up a great fight, testing both my skill and my nerves.  I'd also like to make a shout out to "TracerX"...watching your horizontal stabilizer fall off shortly before your FW-190 cartwheeled only meters from my canopy was one of the most invigorating moments I've experienced on Aces High.  I don't mean this to sound sarcastic, I look forward to flying with, or against him in the near future.

<S>

theTBone

[shreck]

Hmm! all this discussion about reality and #s and performance, etc etc. Well I can tell you, the 109s and 190s I saw were very difficult to engage. They were fast and fleeting, and most of them were above me. I real some real issues (speed wise) trying to force them to worry about the escort rather than the bombers! Most of our bombers were shot down, so the axis seemed to do pretty well to me   . It looked to me like the axis were thrown in piece meal, with no concentrated effort against the main bomber force! We ran into a couple scouts easily 25 minutes before target, so axis had plenty of time to organize something! It also seemed to me the axis waqs not very aggressive. On the return trip home Cashew and I broke off 3 friendly bomber groups to escort Plisskens bombers that were lagging behind, we got jumped by 4 109s, Cash got 1 and drug one toward home I got HOed and ended up with amy right flap stuck at 2 notches spiraling to earth!! Finally got slow enough at about 1K to get other flap out, the 2 other 109s still in tow  Unable to get above 190 mph without the left flap raising I ended up fighting the 2 109s on the deck. Killed them both (they wre not aggressive enough) and flew all the way home at 190 mph with my head on a swivel

Anyway, I thought it was quite realistic and showed the ENORMOUS problems the axis had against superior allied air power!!

[Odee]

   

I doth hear a waaaaaaghmbulance coming.

Geeze ladies, quitcher whining and just play the game already.
 

[DrDea]

 

I doth hear a waaaaaaghmbulance coming.

Geeze ladies, quitcher whining and just play the game already.
 

  Yea seriously.

[texastc316]

+100,000,000

[Stoney]

 

I doth hear a waaaaaaghmbulance coming.

Geeze ladies, quitcher whining and just play the game already.
 

Odee, we actually do like to entertain constructive discussions of the frame and ideas on how to improve the event.  This kind of stuff is not helpful nor does it contribute to the discussion.

[Odee]

Odee, we actually do like to entertain constructive discussions of the frame and ideas on how to improve the event.  This kind of stuff is not helpful nor does it contribute to the discussion.

Yeah well guess what bub... I never heard of whining do anything but rub nerves raw.

You want constructive criticism, I'll give you some... Not that any of it will be used:

• Research the battles in detail first.  Then build a workable scenario around that research.
• Set realistic altitude caps for both sides... and enforce it.
• Ensure you have the proper airframes available and quit using substitutes for ones that were not there.  If the plane is not available in game, you can petition HTC to add it.  Otherwise you go with what you have and consider the scenario an "Alternate Reality" and go from that.
• If one side keeps getting bounced from on high then tough tinys if the bounced side doesn't adapt the next frame to make the fight more to their liking... as long as it is within the ROE of the scenario.
• If a player does not like something in a scenario, or wants clarification on the ROE, it is up to that player, or squad to say so before the scenario is finalized for running.  If they do not voice their concerns before the game is on, then they have two options: (a) Play the scenario out as is.  (b) Don't play the scenario at all.

[BnZs]

• Set realistic altitude caps for both sides... and enforce it.

People are complaining about the Allied fighters tooling along at realistic altitudes for them.

Well, that is why I said a 22K limit for the buffs, in the interest of fairness, but still none for the fighters. Yes, buffs could fly higher, 22K is realistic though. At 22K the German fighters will still have some performance left.

A P-47 can still tool along at 35K if it wants, but that means the gap between him and the buffs would be ~2miles at least. Which gives certain opportunities to the interceptors and forces the escorts to choose between the perch and being closer to what they are supposed to be protecting.

Much better to set an alt limit on the buff formations than to artificially limit the fighter's freedom of movement IMO.

[shreck]

Never liked alt caps. To negate by choice, performance advantage of one plane set to favor another is terrible. I would rather see the balance in #s altered to accomodate the frame. The relative historical accuracy is what I enjoy the most. My squad has flown axis many more times than allied, so I'm very aware of the difficulty overcoming allied air superiority. If the axis had had an absolute field day vs the bombers and escorts (which seems to be the case anyway) then the alt disussions would never had come up, and those victorious would sit quiet and blissfull in the self realized knowledge they had changed history a little bit Or maybe it's just certain folks , that when things don't go their way who try and find fault in the set up!    My idea with T+60 bombing is more to add a little flexibility for the cic's than some flaw I may see.  I thought it was a good frame  <S>  CM's

[daddog]

Or maybe it's just certain folks , that when things don't go their way who try and find fault in the set up!

Nail on the head.

Of course I could be guilty of this myself at times, but I sure see it with others too.

[DrDea]

People are complaining about the Allied fighters tooling along at realistic altitudes for them.
Much better to set an alt limit on the buff formations than to artificially limit the fighter's freedom of movement IMO.

  Wait a minute....The Axis had a poor turn out.The 190's and 109's that jumped our buffs had an alt advantage and the axis won the battle AFTER the buff points were reduced because so many got slaughtered.
 Ok.The Axis had it rough. I can see this now.Maybe we should just have the allies bring the buffs in at 10 K.Force them to do a full circle around the base 10 times before they drop and the buffs have to circle the base afterwards 10 times before they egress. Also..the Allied fighters can NOT shoot at the axis planes as this seems to make this batch cry,and we want it to be fun for every one.
 Good fracking lord.Axis win the battle and wanna throw a fit.

[BnZs]

I am not complaining about the altitude of the Allied fighters. I am offering a compromise which I think would be more satisfactory IMO than imposing the proposed alt caps for fighters.

  Wait a minute....The Axis had a poor turn out.The 190's and 109's that jumped our buffs had an alt advantage and the axis won the battle AFTER the buff points were reduced because so many got slaughtered.
 Ok.The Axis had it rough. I can see this now.Maybe we should just have the allies bring the buffs in at 10 K.Force them to do a full circle around the base 10 times before they drop and the buffs have to circle the base afterwards 10 times before they egress. Also..the Allied fighters can NOT shoot at the axis planes as this seems to make this batch cry,and we want it to be fun for every one.
 Good fracking lord.Axis win the battle and wanna throw a fit.