Look at these stats !!!

[Grape]

Top German Aces  Kills  Comments                         Medal  Unit                      East    West  Plane 
Erich Hartmann  352  First kill Nov. 1942           KCOSD JG 52                  352  -         Bf 109
Gerhard Barkhorn      301  120 sorties w/o a kill         KCOS  JG 52, 6, JV 44     301  -          Bf 109
Günther Rall             275  two long injury layoffs      KCOS  JG 52, 11, 300       272       3    Bf 109
Otto Kittel               267  583 sorties, KIA Feb '45    KCOS  JG 54                   267  -          Fw 190
Walter Nowotny       258  Austrian, KIA Nov '44        KCOSD JG 54, Kdo. Nov.    255       3    Fw 190
Wilhelm Batz            237  -                                   KCOS  JG 52                   232       5    Bf 109

Knights Cross (KC) with Oak Leaves (O), Swords (S), and Diamonds (D). More about WW2 German medals here.

[grizz441]

I read that when Erich Hartmann was to receive his diamonds, Hitler's security ordered him to remove his side arm.  He told them something to the extent of "If Hitler can't trust his own officers on the front line then he can stick those diamonds where the sun don't shine."  I believe Hartmann received the diamonds with his side arm in place.   

[Bruv119]

the eastern front was pretty much a turkey shoot for the luftwaffe up until the latter stages of the war.

anyone can vulch, pick, gang and horde right?

[texastc316]

read a biography on hartmann recently, pretty much what was stated there as well.

[Anaxogoras]

the eastern front was pretty much a turkey shoot for the luftwaffe up until the latter stages of the war.

anyone can vulch, pick, gang and horde right?

Hartmann didn't start scoring consistently until Summer 1943.

P.S. Although Hartman didn't fly in the West, 5 or 6 of his kills were USAAF P-51s.

[Furball]

In Johnnie Johnson's book he describes leading his wing over Berlin and encountering a large formation of Russian fighters, he said it was like watching a swarm of insects, the leader would lead the way and the remainder would just follow around in an unorganised gaggle.

[Bruv119]

it just goes to show how any statistical information can look great on paper but in reality If I was thinking great german pilots I'd be suggesting hans joachim marseille over the numerical superiors.

I guess the scoring system in AH is similiar in a funny sort of way.

[LTARogue]

Something else to keep in mind is these guys flew several missions in a day throughout much of the war. The allied counterparts (US and British) would usually fly every few days with the exception of the BoB. Thats what numbers allowed anyway. That helps explain the huge disparity in planes shot down. You still have to be a skilled pilot with exceptional marksmanship to attain those numbers so I am taking nothing away from those great air warriors. Also if you want impressive look at how quickly Hans J. Marseille JG 27 shot down the allied planes in North Afrika. Had he lived to see the end of the war his numbers would have been up there with Hartman if he maintained that pace.

LTARogue

[LTARogue]

You Go Bruv

[Motherland]

Barkhorn and Rall flew the Fw 190 as well, and Nowotny also flew the 262.

Hans-Ulrich Rudel, who flew the Ju 87 and ground attack versions of the Fw190, destroyed, among other things, 519 tanks, 150 artillery guns, 1 destroyer, 2 cruisers, 1 battleship, and shot down 9 aircraft.

The highest scoring ace in the Western European/ Mediterranean theater was Hans-Joachim Marseille, again a Bf 109 pilot, who shot down 158 aircraft in something like a year and a half, mainly of the RAF (which was widely regarded as the most skilled airforce of those the Luftwaffe flew against), before he was killed bailing out of his Bf 109G-1 when the engine malfunctioned (this seems to have been a common problem with the early G-1 models). I think Marseille also holds the record for most aircraft shot down in a single day, at 17. (whoops, no, that's Emil Lang with 18)

The highest scoring non German ace was Finnish pilot Ilmari Juutilainen, who scored 94 victories in the Fokker D.XXI, Brewster 239, and over half in the Bf 109.

The highest scoring Allied ace was Ivan Kozhedub, who scored 62 kills in Lavochkins, including an Me 262.

[PiratPX]

Take a look at the list of RAF aces of Battle of Britain (roughly 3 months of intense fighting). Had they flown with similar intensity for another 5 years, some of them would come close to Luftwaffe top guns or even beat them. Quality of opposition, especially in 1941, was also a factor.

[pipz]

I believe they get into this comparison in "Allied Fighters Aces".Many of the top scoreing Western Allied aces could have come up with the same stats had they flown the same number of hours as Luftwaffe pilots.If Barkhorn was in the USAAF or RAF we most likely would never of heard of him.

Johnnie Johnson in his book "Wing Leader" questions the number of kills Marseille scored.I never realy got into investigating this.

Now Joseph "Pips" Priller was the man!He shot down just over 100 planes all in the west!The highest scoring Luftwaffe pilot againts Spitfires!Strafed the beaches of Normandy and never got shot down! He also had a brewery back home .....ok ok I admit a bit of bias on my part <BG>


Pipz

[Motherland]

Take a look at the list of RAF aces of Battle of Britain (roughly 3 months of intense fighting). Had they flown with similar intensity for another 5 years, some of them would come close to Luftwaffe top guns or even beat them. Quality of opposition, especially in 1941, was also a factor.

German kills during the Battle of Britain were very high as well. It would have been during this time period that the first German pilots began to break Richtofen's WWI score of 80 IIRC. Not sure if that includes those pilot's Spanish Civil War kills, though.

[Bear76]

You mean they couldn't just jump in a new plane after dieing? What kind of game is that? 

[strong10]

Major Heinz Schnaufer had 121 victories in the ME-110 all at night in the west.  Sure, they were all bombers but in one night he shot down 9 Lancs!  Imagine trying to find bombers at night by looking for red hot exhaust.  He also perfected a way to shoot them down where the crew had a good chance to bail out.