Author Topic: New D9 gun test!  (Read 1197 times)

Offline Naudet

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New D9 gun test!
« on: April 17, 2001, 11:28:00 AM »
Ok due to the intense debate i did today some testing with Mojack2 in the training arena.

Circumstances were the following:

Mojack2 flew a B17 as tgt plane

I made 3 sorties:
1. in D9 convergence 300 yrds
2. in A8 weapons, 2x13mm + 2x20mm, convergence 300
3. again in D9 with 300 yrds con


In my 1st sortie i flew the D9 in on the B17, and started firing at 750 yrds distance with the 20 mms only (distance Mojack saws was always about 200 yrds more, all distance posted below are from my point of few, for Mo's view add 200 yrds).
1st pings were noticed not before getting into 500 yrds range. The B17 did not have any notable dmg before atleast 20 pings from the cannons.

So i started the 2nd sortie.
At 1000 yrds i fired just for the fun, but Mojack answered "Hey i heared pings". So i throttled back and zoomed in as far as possible.
I was able to hold the distance between 990 and 1000 yrds. I started firing, with a small elevation above the tgt. And started firing with 20mm, and i scored hits, not randomly but regulary from all of my short bursts.
I than switched to 13 mm and yes no problem to hit a B17 at 1000 yrds (this were 1200 yrds for Mojack).
I than closed in, it was no prob to hit that B17, and before getting under 700 i killed the B17.

Now i switched back to D9, which should have the same guns as the A8.
I flew to 1000 yrds distance and fired with the 20mm only. Mojack was to report any ping he got, but nothing. I changed elevation above tgt, no hit. I startet a long 5 second burst and move the plane slowly through the elavation, till the B17 disappeared behind the nose. No hits were registered by Mojack.
After repeating this about 4 times. i Switched to 13mm and directly scored hits, without a huge elevation above the tgt.
Now i wanted to find out when the 20 mm would start to hit.

800 yrds: 2 pings from a long burst (4-5sec) with a high elevation.

600 yrds: regular hits with the same elevation used in the A8  for 1000 yrds shots and hits

up till yet Mo's B17 took about 20 hits without any dmg noticed in the dmg report

400 yrds: hits are more regular at 350 they still spray over the whole span of the B17s elevator

at 350 finally after about 30-35 hits the B17 lost both elevators (horizontal stabilizers) and was dead


This shows to me, that there is a difference between the MG151 on the D9 compared to other GE planes. It seems the Shells spray more and fall much shorter than in the other FW.

To me this proofed that the D9 guns are different. This will be my last comment to this discussion and my opinion will not be changed by any arguments u bring in. Test parameters were all the same. And the results can only be explained with screwed up MG151/20 on the D9.

Offline Ripsnort

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New D9 gun test!
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2001, 11:41:00 AM »
I made some training films last night, one platform I used was the Dora, had no problem downing this B17, this pic is the 3rd pass on him, he actually blew up before I flew into his flight path, but the film editor did not reflect this explosion (known bug)...I had convergence set at 500 for the 20mm's and used all guns in each pass.  This is FYI stuff, not arguing your point.

 

Offline Lephturn

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New D9 gun test!
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2001, 12:08:00 PM »
Naudet.

All you have to do is press alt-r to turn film on you know.  It's really easy.  Then we can all see instead of you having to convince us.  You could also take screenshots of the film later to better illustrate your point.

FILM guys... it makes it so much easier.

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Offline Citabria

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New D9 gun test!
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2001, 12:10:00 PM »
thats a pretty wide prop on the 190d9.

did you consider that the guns may have a lower ROF due to that vs the 190a8?
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Offline Hooligan

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New D9 gun test!
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2001, 01:45:00 PM »
Citabria:

Both the inboard guns on the A8 and the D9 guns are synchronized to fire through the propellor.  ROF should be identical I believe.

Hooligan

Offline Jigster

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New D9 gun test!
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2001, 02:09:00 PM »
Well that leads to an interesting possibility...

The Jumo might effect the interupter.


Offline mx22

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New D9 gun test!
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2001, 02:25:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Hooligan:
Citabria:

Both the inboard guns on the A8 and the D9 guns are synchronized to fire through the propellor.  ROF should be identical I believe.

Hooligan

A8 and D9 have different engines and propellors, so ROF should be different for both of this planes. But ultimately this is irrelevant to the way bullets fly, this only means either of this planes could put up more lead into the enemy at any given moment.
The only way for D9 to have bullets with worser trajectory is if it would have used different ammunition from the rest of the German planes. It doesn't...

mx22

Offline R4M

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New D9 gun test!
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2001, 02:29:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Citabria:
thats a pretty wide prop on the 190d9.

did you consider that the guns may have a lower ROF due to that vs the 190a8?


The BMW801 had a prop rpm of 2700rpm

the Ju213 had a prop rpm of 3200rpm

The blade is wider,yes, but the bigger rpm should make up the difference and even INCREASE the rate of fire, I think.


[This message has been edited by R4M (edited 04-17-2001).]

Offline mx22

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New D9 gun test!
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2001, 02:51:00 PM »
Hmm somehow I doubt that planes with different engines AND propellors will end up giving same ROF. I remember someone posting a formula to calculate ROF, can anyone paste it in here? Would the wide blade account for a slower ROF or is it irrelavant?

mx22

 
Quote
Originally posted by R4M:

The BMW801 had a prop rpm of 2700rpm

the Ju213 had a prop rpm of 3200rpm

The blade is wider,yes, but the bigger rpm should make up the difference and even INCREASE the rpm, I think.


Offline Animal

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New D9 gun test!
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2001, 03:37:00 PM »
A few days ago I was flying 190d9 and I just coulding hit a lancaster even at 300yards

Same convergence as the a5 wich is the 190 I regularly fly, and sames guns. With the a5 I regularly shoot down buffs from longer distances.

Offline mx22

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New D9 gun test!
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2001, 03:52:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Animal:
A few days ago I was flying 190d9 and I just coulding hit a lancaster even at 300yards

Same convergence as the a5 wich is the 190 I regularly fly, and sames guns. With the a5 I regularly shoot down buffs from longer distances.

This is not a prove of anything. Last week I flew Yak-9 and couldn't hit enemy from around 150 yards. Then day or two later I loged on and was killing enemies from way farther. I think it was me being too much trigger happy, then guns firing slower then usual.

mx22


Offline Naudet

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« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2001, 06:50:00 PM »
I will repeat the test and film it, my only prob is i find that the "movie player" isnt very good for taking screenshotsm cause it seems it has no picture-per-picture option.

But i will try to get a visual evidence of this.

Offline Citabria

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« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2001, 06:56:00 PM »
I'm a lousy shot but i have no trouble hitting with 190d9. i fire cannons only too.

your problems with the 190d9 guns are imaginary just as is my problem with getting shot down by flak every time i get in range.


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Offline MANDOBLE

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New D9 gun test!
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2001, 03:24:00 AM »
I share your second problem Cit ...

RoadfRash

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New D9 gun test!
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2001, 04:21:00 AM »
I made a gun sight just for the D9 and adjusted it downward until I got consistent hits at 300 yard convergence cannon only, after this was working satisfatorily I had to drop the MG's to 200 yards to get then to converge with the cannons at 300 yards so it looks like the at a normal 300 yard convergence the cannon have droped 100 yards below the MG's, with the convergence adjusted as described above it was very deadly at 300 yard convergence, not exactly a consumers report test but it sure does make me wonder how the D9 guns are modeled