F4u1-c usage in WW2 /why to perk, why not to?

[illo]

What was number of f4u1-cs that saw action in ww2? How many kills were recorded to f4u1-cs?
And are there any pilots that became ace in f4u1-c?

I know very little about this plane so feel free to enlighten this up for me and others.

Also I would like to know why Ta-152 is perk and f4u1-c is not?
F4u1-c was used in superior numbers in combat? neg i guess.
F4u1-c was used earlier? no
Did it have more important effect in war? no
Ta-152 is superior to f4u1-c? I guess this depends on altitude.

Anyway its logical to think both should be perked. ..or is it?

btw. there was at least 1 pilot who became ace in Ta-152.

[This message has been edited by illo (edited 04-20-2001).]

[Karnak]

How many were used in WWII is irrelevant to whether or not it should be perked.

How hard it is to kill in a 1 on 1 fight is irrelevant to whether or not it should be perked.

How easily it kills things is irrelevant to whether or not it should be perked.

Its frequency of use in the Main Arena is the only relevant thing to whether or not it should be perked.

Due to how common it is, and the fact that the F4U fans have the F4U-1D available for free, causes me to want to see it perked.  It significantly reduces the variety of the MA.  If it were made a cheap, say 10 point, perk I believe the F4U-1C user would disperse to several other aircraft, probably the following aircraft would get the majority:

F4U-1D (F4U fans)
N1K2-J (spray and pray, need a lot of cannon ammo guys)
Spitfire MkIX (has Hispanos and like to turn guys)
Typhoon (has 4 Hispanos and is fast on the deck guys)
La7 (fast on the deck and turns alright guys)
P-47D-30 (has a lot of ammo and ordanace guys)
P-38L (has a lot of ammo and ordanance guys)
Fw190D-9 (fast on the deck and has a lot of ammo guys)

------------------
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother

Bring the Spitfire F.MkXIVc to Aces High!!!

Sisu
-Karnak

[This message has been edited by Karnak (edited 04-20-2001).]

[Pepe]

I think I can qualify as a F4U fan, as I fly quite often the D-Hog. And I really want the Quakebird perked, as Pyro promised.

The average Quakebirder is HO killer and, failing the inevitable HO, an easy prey. One side pissing, the other boring.

I can't understand the Ta-152 as a perked plane.

Cheers,

Pepe

[F4UDOA]

illo,

There were 200 F4U-1C's built in late 1944, there squadrons equiped and trained in Jan-feb and they reached combat in April 1945.

There were many kills recorded in the -1C. The ace which you asked for would be Lt. Joe Robbins of the VF-85, USS Shrangri-La.

Even more compelling for a non-perk A/C by your standards would be the F4U-4 of which 1,800 were built during WW2. It saw combat and had aces fly it. In fact Ken Walsh a 21 kill ace scored his last in it.

For the record I do think the F4U-1C could be considering a low perk point A/C. Maybe 10 points. However comparing the -1C combat record to the TA-152 is apples and oranges.

How many German pilots ever flew the TA-152? A hand full maybe 20? How many were built? How many active aquadrons were there? Did pilots ever actually train to fly this machine? There are some obscure versions of the F4U such as the F2G or F4U-3 which were built in numbers similar to the TA-152 which will certainly never appear in AH perked or otherwise, not including the likes of the F8F and P-51H which were also built and deployed during WW2.

Production numbers during WW2
F4U-4  = 1,859
F4U-1C =   200
F4U-3  =    26
F2G    =    10

TA-152 =    ??

[illo]

Thanks for telling me how things work here  

I agree most chogs are easy kills..HOs i can usually evade while diving on them, but when they pull hard they may get to spray me from 700-1000yards for 1sec. Very often they land few hits on me before im out of range. After those few hits A8 is dead. This is not problem against any other plane in arena. What really bothers me is that 1/2 of planes i encounter are chogs.

I think that these range showing neon sign radars(that some ppl call icons) are causing most of this spraying...people simply couldnt spray effectively without this exact info of closure rates and distances.


But anyways i would like to know how f4u1-c fared in WW2 combat and when was it used and how many?

[Toad]

From the ACES HIGH page:

History

The F4U-1C was a small production run of the Corsair that featured four 20mm cannons in place of the normal armament of six .50 caliber machine-guns.  Vought produced 200 F4U-1Cs.  The 1Cs first saw combat during the Okinawa campaign where they saw heavy action.  VMF-311 was equipped with the 1C and tallied 71 victories during that campaign.  VF-85 was also furnished with 1Cs and recorded 40 victories in the Okinawa campaign and later over mainland Japan.

There's enough info there to get you started with a web search for more details.

Enjoy.  

[SageFIN]

You know, it would do good to you mean people who always bash the chog to fly a round or two of sorties with it. You'd see that its FM for sure isn't to blame for the ludicrous amount of MA usage and you'd get to enjoy the hispanos a bit yourself.

Also by flying the chog yourself (if you happen to have a feeling that chogs confer some sort of artificial advantage to their pilots) you'd guarantee that if another chog ever comes along, you have a level playing field and the best man comes out as the winner. "If you can't beat your enemies, join them."  

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---
SageFIN

"I think I´ll believe in Gosh instead of God.  If you don´t
 believe in Gosh too, you´ll be darned to heck."
---

[sling322]

blah blah blah....same old song....time to change the record.

[Karnak]

SageFIN,
There is not a single complaint about the F4U-1C's flight model, guns or lethality in this thread.  You should read before you post.

It gets really old to have F4U-1C fans come in a hijack every thread about the F4U-1C by bringing in their same old tired accusations, even if nobody has complained about the thing.

sling322,
No, it wasn't the "same old record".  Learn to read.

------------------
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother

Bring the Spitfire F.MkXIVc to Aces High!!!

Sisu
-Karnak

[This message has been edited by Karnak (edited 04-20-2001).]

[Nefarious]

Originally posted by F4UDOA:


"P-51H which were also built and deployed during WW2."

Deployed maybe..but Combat no

"Contrary to popular belief the P-51H never saw combat in any war. It was the only Mustang never to do so and also the only type not sold to any foreign nation. Although 370 aircraft had been delivered to the AAF prior to VJ day, none found thier way to combat units in time for the final fight.By the time the Korean War broke out in June 1950, the P-51H's were all but phased out of active US Air force service"



[This message has been edited by Nefarious (edited 04-20-2001).]

[F4UDOA]

Exactly Nefarious,

Built in production, units fully trained, deployed but no combat. Like the F8F or P-51H.

IMHO this qualifies as more of a WW2 fighter than a proto-type that was being test flown when bounced by enemy fighters or an A/C in which more were destroyed by straffing than actually flew in combat missions.

I think having reached at least 1 full production run during WW2(the end of WW2, not when Germany punked out) qualifies as a WW2 fighter.

When you consider that WW2 started in 1939 with Germany invading Poland(Spanish civil war also) and continued through 1945. This gives Germany 6 years of combat fighter production and developement. Compare that to the US which entered the war in Dec. 1941 or really in 1942. That gave the US only 3 years of fighter developement. Then you have people on these boards who say that 1945 planes are perks or not WW2 fighters, so that makes 2 years of US A/C that have some rediculous set of requirements to meet before they are considered to qualify as a WW2 fighter and even then people complain about the F4U-1C which fits every possible criteria for being in the plane set.

Here are a few US fighters that were flying in 1944 after 2 years of fighter developement and reached some level of production.

P-47M
P-47N
F4U-3
F2G
F4U-4
F8F-1
P-51H

If these A/C are not WW2 fighters then why should any country be allowed more than 2 years of fighter production to qualify for either a WW2 fighter or a non-perk A/C.

So thats fair right? No US planes after 1944 and no German planes after 1941 or they are all perked right  

[Karnak]

F4UDOA,
You're being a bit silly.  The US was developing fighters before we got in it, the F4U, P-38 and P-47 are all examples of US pre-war fighter projects.  The US lead the world in engine capability and propellor design all through WWII, regardless of whether we were in it or not.

The only standard that I think is fair is this:

There was at least 1 production, not proto-type, aircraft of the type built.

Combat should not matter.  Desparately throwing aircraft not fully tested into combat doesn't matter.  Production number do not matter.

This standard allows the following aircraft:

P-51H
Spitfire F.21
A7M2
He162
Do335 (I think there was a production model)
F7F
Meteor MkIII
P-47M/N
P-80A
F8F

It does not allow aircraft such as:

J7W1
Go229
B-36
Spiteful (not that it was any good)

------------------
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother

Bring the Spitfire F.MkXIVc to Aces High!!!

Sisu
-Karnak

[Sturm]

OK ill budge on this one.

P-51H
Spitfire F.21
A7M2
He162
Do335 (I think there was a production model)
F7F
Meteor MkIII
P-47M/N
P-80A
F8F

It does not allow aircraft such as:

J7W1
Go229
B-36

I will talk about the german ones.  HE-162 did see combat and filled at least 2 squadrons with aircraft.  They have confirmed kills 1 in the west over a typhoon I believe at lechts field, the other info I am waiting on Oleg Maddox to send me on the 162's in the east.  DO-335 did see combat, and the Gotha "err Horten" I am still waiting on some records about it, but stories say it was used before the testing grounds were taken over.  

------------------
Sturm6 StaffelKapitän
JV44 Platzschutzstaffel
Airfield Defense Squadron
"Did we give up when the Germans bombed Pearl harbor?"  Famous quote from Animal House, John Belushi.

[AKSeaWulfe]

I have a book on the Horton flying wing, the farthest it got was a prototype that crashed shortly after take off. I can scan in some pictures and information later tonite.
-SW

[Toad]

Bearcats. ummmmmmmmmmm Bearcats!
 http://home.att.net/~C.C.Jordan/Grumman.html  

"With the Navy completely satisfied with the little powerhouse, an order for 2,023 F8F-1 fighters was placed. The first fighters being delivered to VF-19 on May 21, 1945, just 6 months after the prototype made its first flight."
 http://www.rwebs.net/ghostsqd/f8f.htm  

"Two squadrons, VF-18 and VF-19 were equipped with F8F-1's, and training was expedited in order to get the new fighter into service against Japanese suicide attack planes in the Pacific. VF-19 was onboard the carrier USS Langley, enroute across the Pacific, when the war ended on August 16, 1945."

 http://www.multied.com/Navy/CV27Langley.html  

"After touching Ulithi and Pearl Harbor, she steamed to San Francisco,arriving 3 June for repairs and modernization. She departed 1 August for the forward area, and reached Pearl Harbor 8 August. While there, word arrived that hostilities had ended."


The Langley, CV-27, made it to Pearl on 8 August 45 with VF-19, the first operationally deployed Bearcat squadron.

Thus saving us all from a whinefest that would make the -1C hoopla the smallest of sideshows in comparison.

....ahhhh  Bearcats!