Bye bye, GM

[68Wooley]

...although Ford does not produce great cars

Actually it does - just not necessarily in North America.

In Europe, after the abominations of the 80's and early 90's, they really got their act together. The Mondeo / Focus / Fiesta are consistently highly rated. The only thing against them is they have a slight image problem.

http://www.whatcar.com/car-review-summary.aspx?rt=2901
http://www.whatcar.com/car-review-summary.aspx?rt=692
http://www.whatcar.com/car-review-summary.aspx?rt=2829

[caldera]

American cars have always had an image problem because snooty magazine writers immediately discount them as inferior simply for being American. If they print it, it must be true. Right? I had a Chrysler Crossfire convertable (made by Mercedes in Onasbruck, Germany) that was weakly powered and rattled like an econobox. I bought it because everyone was slobbering over it, even when it was parked aside a new Z06 Corvette and a 300 SRT8 in the delivery prep area. My made in America Dodge Magnum doesn't attract the ladies, but it hauls bellybutton and the only noise it makes is out the tailpipes. I've owned a lot of cars and trucks and the only ones that gave me trouble were made overseas.

And as far as the government relinquishing control over GM, don't hold your breath. The federal income tax was instituted to help pay for WWI (IIRC) and wasn't supposed to be permanent. AMTRAK was supposed to be handled similarly in 1970. It continues to be subsidized. And the Supreme Chancellor in a galaxy far, far away said he would step down when the crisis had abated. 

[Masherbrum]

$30 Billion in government loans didn't hurt either.  But yeah, I wish I had invested in some Ford stock back when it was just over $1 a share.

Ford has taken NO MONEY throughout this ordeal, which is why they said from the start back in September: "We do not want any money."

GM took no initiative when the last administration allowed the use of bailout money.   They were told to have an "action plan" within six months, this is why Waggoner is thankfully gone.   Chrysler has spent the better part of the last 30 years on the borderline of bankruptcy.

But Ford started "Streamlining" back in 2005.   GM tried hiding their books for a while and their greed/laziness finally caught up with them.

[Masherbrum]

Ford will remain, although Ford does not produce great cars, they are putting more resources into it and have remained a smart company. They own many great car brands and would not be a surprise if they purchase some of the brands GM is doing away with. I hope someone saves Pontiac...

The Fusion/Milan/MkZ smokes the competition in it's class.   The F-Series are the best trucks on the road, bar none.   

Ford will NOT assume anymore brands.   They only have 4 to worry about and Mazda doesn't even fit into the picture.   

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

The F series is not even close to being the best full sized truck on the road. GM has better gasoline and diesel engines, far better transmissions, and better electronics. Ford has had the worst transmissions for decades, and the newer ones are no better. The Powerstroke diesel is a poor performer and is not fuel efficient, the Cummins is better, and the DuraMax beats them both. The LSx based GM gasoline engines are more reliable, more efficient, and make more real world power than the Ford gasoline engines, and the venerable big block is still the strongest gasoline powered engine in the light truck world. The only real weakness GM trucks have are the IFS setups in the 4x4 trucks. Put the big straight axle on leaf springs back under the front of a GM truck and it becomes near indestructible.

Ford may be the best selling truck (in most years only if you do not combine the identical Chevy and GMC units) but they are not the best trucks.

That being said, Ford's CEO has done the best job of running a company, proving that good business moves can help you survive even if you do not have a superior product (that has always been the case in the automotive world).

GM is screwed. Government and UAW control will only cause GM to go bankrupt again, and most likely it will be even worse the next time. The government cannot run a company, they cannot even help run a company. You need only look at AmTrak to see what government control will bring.

[Masherbrum]

The F series is not even close to being the best full sized truck on the road. GM has better gasoline and diesel engines, far better transmissions, and better electronics. Ford has had the worst transmissions for decades, and the newer ones are no better. The Powerstroke diesel is a poor performer and is not fuel efficient, the Cummins is better, and the DuraMax beats them both. The LSx based GM gasoline engines are more reliable, more efficient, and make more real world power than the Ford gasoline engines, and the venerable big block is still the strongest gasoline powered engine in the light truck world. The only real weakness GM trucks have are the IFS setups in the 4x4 trucks. Put the big straight axle on leaf springs back under the front of a GM truck and it becomes near indestructible.

Ford may be the best selling truck (in most years only if you do not combine the identical Chevy and GMC units) but they are not the best trucks.

That being said, Ford's CEO has done the best job of running a company, proving that good business moves can help you survive even if you do not have a superior product (that has always been the case in the automotive world).

GM is screwed. Government and UAW control will only cause GM to go bankrupt again, and most likely it will be even worse the next time. The government cannot run a company, they cannot even help run a company. You need only look at AmTrak to see what government control will bring.

I've seen the F-150 go head to head against the Silverado, Tundra, Titan and Ram.   It wasn't even close.    No shenanigans, just a straight up, equal tow, driving course.   

GM did it to themselves.   

[Eagler]

See Rule #14

[Enker]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8077255.stm

Not a complete surprise, but they filed for bankruptcy protection today...

 

Does this mean no more Transformers 2?

[redwing7]

Just read on MSN that a Chinese firm will most likely be buying Hummer from GM.

I am a third generation automotive supplier and the end has been in sight for a very long time. I just wish I had smart enough long ago to belive it and change my career path. When the dust finally settles from this, US automakers "and manufactoring in general" won't even be a hollow shell of it's former self. 

[sluggish]

GM may make a superior truck but it doesn't matter because they can't build a passenger car with the MPG to compete with the imports.

The Malibu may get better milage than the Camary but it doesn't matter because their build quality is inferior.

GMs quality may be better than it ever was but it doesn't matter because all they build are giant gas hogs that no one wants anyways.


Rinse, repeat.

[soda72]

Last year we had a family reunion up in yellowstone.  I have a 6 year old nephew who was told by grandpa that only Fords could make it up to yellowstone since Chevy's didn't have enough power.  As we were driving around the park visiting different geological sites my nephew notices a Chevy truck, and yells out 'grandpa grandpa how did that Chevy make it up here?'  Grandpa turns around and says 'A Ford must have towed it up here.'

 

[Lye-El]

WRONG! Read up a little, GM under new management is not going to be allowed to import any of those great fuel efficient cars they make overseas. They will be forced to create and sell them here and before its all over we the tax payer will pump $100 billion into it, we've already poured $30 billion down the drain.

Lighten up Francis.   

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

GM may make a superior truck but it doesn't matter because they can't build a passenger car with the MPG to compete with the imports.

The Malibu may get better milage than the Camary but it doesn't matter because their build quality is inferior.

GMs quality may be better than it ever was but it doesn't matter because all they build are giant gas hogs that no one wants anyways.


Rinse, repeat.

GM has more cars that average better than 30MPG than any other manufacturer. And the Malibu is at least equal to the Camry in build quality. The problem with GM is their business model stinks. It has for years. And with the government in charge, it will stink worse.

[CAP1]

$30 Billion in government loans didn't hurt either.  But yeah, I wish I had invested in some Ford stock back when it was just over $1 a share.

if i'm correct, ford took no money from them.

[CAP1]

Ford will remain, although Ford does not produce great cars, they are putting more resources into it and have remained a smart company. They own many great car brands and would not be a surprise if they purchase some of the brands GM is doing away with. I hope someone saves Pontiac...

actually, they DO produce great cars.


F-series pickups
E-series vans
the mustang. the crown vic. the focus.

 all great in their own way.

around here, i see more E and F series trucks and van fleets than anything.