Brewster Buffalo

[Masherbrum]

Ok.  Other than being used against a Russian air force predominated by EVEN more inferior aircraft( mostly biplanes or early 1930's era monoplanes) and flown by better Finnish pilots who knew the fate of their country rested on every man in uniform, and weren't relegated to inferior russian tactics...

The BREWSTER SUCKED.  

It will never even be as popular as the F4F in any arena, other than by the Finns.  I'm happy they got their ride, and I think this is a bone to them from HT, but the aircraft will be relegated to Special Events and the early war arenas (for the 20 people that go there)  and be used in large numbers only for the first three weeks after the update.

Let me know if you are in the Late War Arenas after we get this.   We'll test your theory, because I guarantee you, there are many more like me that would be MORE THAN HAPPY to shoot you down with ease.

But hey, thanks for showing the Community how selfish you are.   

[MORAY37]

Let me know if you are in the Late War Arenas after we get this.   We'll test your theory, because I guarantee you, there are many more like me that would be MORE THAN HAPPY to shoot you down with ease.

But hey, thanks for showing the Community how selfish you are.   

Ok, so other than threatening to kill my cartoon plane, how have you refuted my point again?  That being the -239 flew against even more inferior aircraft, ie Biplanes and even more inferior monoplanes?   

Who's jumping off topic?  Threatening me in the MA? Laughable.  How old are you again?  You can't even stick to the one argument you had.... and try to disprove mine.  The Brewster Buffalo was over matched the day it rolled off the line.  It was withdrawn from US service in less than 6 months combat, and only one engagement in US hands. This being a US reeling from loss after loss, and scrambling to procure every combat aircraft it possibly could.  But, we shipped our remaining Buffalos to Finland...

 Yeah, it was spectacular...great add.

Selfish?  There's nothing in it for me sir.  I'll play the game regardless.  I'm happy for the Finns.  My opinion that there were other, more substantial aircraft to add, notwithstanding.

[-pjk--]

Hmm..
FAF Brewsters flew from 1941 to spring 1944 as frontline fighter in HLlev 24. From 1943 Russians had La-5`s, Spit 5`s(late-42), P40`s(-42), Airacobras, Yak 1`s, Lagg 3`s etc.
None of those were obsolete against 239. Some of those are very capable to fly in AH LW arenas

[vonKrimm]

F3F-3!!!

[Masherbrum]

Ok, so other than threatening to kill my cartoon plane, how have you refuted my point again?  That being the -239 flew against even more inferior aircraft, ie Biplanes and even more inferior monoplanes?   

Who's jumping off topic?  Threatening me in the MA? Laughable.  How old are you again?  You can't even stick to the one argument you had.... and try to disprove mine.  The Brewster Buffalo was over matched the day it rolled off the line.  It was withdrawn from US service in less than 6 months combat, and only one engagement in US hands. This being a US reeling from loss after loss, and scrambling to procure every combat aircraft it possibly could.  But, we shipped our remaining Buffalos to Finland...

 Yeah, it was spectacular...great add.

Selfish?  There's nothing in it for me sir.  I'll play the game regardless.  I'm happy for the Finns.  My opinion that there were other, more substantial aircraft to add, notwithstanding.

I stayed on topic.   I don't waste time with "threats" Moray.   I refuted your ludicrous statement and you still have to keep sniping.  

[Karnak]

Keep in mind what planes it was fighting against.  Soviets in early war weren't even close, especially on this front.  Most of their monoplanes were busy ramping up to squadron service.

(Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)

If you look, you'll find that the vast majority of Soviet fighters in 1941 were monoplanes.  In fact, the Soviet Union moved to monoplanes with the I-16 far earlier than other nations did.

[MORAY37]

Let me know if you are in the Late War Arenas after we get this.   We'll test your theory, because I guarantee you, there are many more like me that would be MORE THAN HAPPY to shoot you down with ease.

But hey, thanks for showing the Community how selfish you are.   

This isn't a threat?  This is your historical comparison of how the Brewster Buffalo fared in combat.... the two of us fighting in MA?  Your argument is ridiculous, and you know you are wrong.  But you are dogged in your determination at all costs, I'll give you that.

Buffalos in US hands were already phased out (1940-1941) in favor of the F4F, and only two marine squadrons retained it by the start of the war.  When it was mauled and hopelessly outclassed in its' one and only engagement, it was removed from US service and sent to the Finns to fly against the Russians

The Buffalo faced even more inferior aircraft flown by Russian pilots given horrendously mediocre training. The russians barely trained any ACM at all for their pilots in the early war days. The Finns were better trained, with a better aircraft on that particular front.  Once the Russians got half a clue, the -239 was withdrawn and replaced by German supplied 109G2's.

 

This is historical fact.  Should you come up with any facts, feel free to share. Historical fact does not include you and I fighting in the MA.

[Sakai]

the He-111 is inferior to the Ju-88 we already have. It's purely a scenario plane, BoB to be precise. The 217 otoh is a very capable bomber for any arena.

Yes, and that is why you have to model both, but I think due to its historical value and cool skins you'd see a few He-111s in the MA as well.

[Karnak]

I'd disagree about the aircraft, Moray.  The I-16-18 and I-16-24 are pretty competitive with the B-239.  The MiG-3 can't turn with one and has crap for guns, but it is far faster.  Utilized in a  skilled manner, the MiG-3's speed and I-153' turning capability should have been a hard combo for the B-239 to deal with.

[Masherbrum]

This isn't a threat?  This is your historical comparison of how the Brewster Buffalo fared in combat.... the two of us fighting in MA?  Your argument is ridiculous, and you know you are wrong.  But you are dogged in your determination at all costs, I'll give you that.

Buffalos in US hands were already phased out (1940-1941) in favor of the F4F, and only two marine squadrons retained it by the start of the war.  When it was mauled and hopelessly outclassed in its' one and only engagement, it was removed from US service and sent to the Finns to fly against the Russians

The Buffalo faced even more inferior aircraft flown by Russian pilots given horrendously mediocre training. The russians barely trained any ACM at all for their pilots in the early war days. The Finns were better trained, with a better aircraft on that particular front.  Once the Russians got half a clue, the -239 was withdrawn and replaced by German supplied 109G2's.

 

This is historical fact.  Should you come up with any facts, feel free to share. Historical fact does not include you and I fighting in the MA.

I've never compared the Buffalo to ANY fighter.   Are you blind?   You can blame the "lack of training", etc (This is almost as funny as watching people cheapen USN Aces, Hartmann, etc).   The ONLY things I discussed "historically", were properly informing HTC's customers of errors on Rich's and your behalf.   Nothing else, nothing less.   

I don't care about "inferiority".   You're pissed off and you two want to grief about it, spewing the same diatribe.   Did you two selfish people ever stop to think that another plane will join this later on in the year?   I wonder what sniping the two of you will come up with, then.   

You can cut and paste all you want from the internet, it doesn't change the fact that both of you tried writing prose on your own and failed miserably at it.   The Finns of this Community ALSO noticed it and corrected you as well. 

[MORAY37]

I've never compared the Buffalo to ANY fighter.   Are you blind?   You can blame the "lack of training", etc (This is almost as funny as watching people cheapen USN Aces, Hartmann, etc).   The ONLY things I discussed "historically", were properly informing HTC's customers of errors on Rich's and your behalf.   Nothing else, nothing less.   

I don't care about "inferiority".   You're pissed off and you two want to grief about it, spewing the same diatribe.   Did you two selfish people ever stop to think that another plane will join this later on in the year?   I wonder what sniping the two of you will come up with, then.   

You can cut and paste all you want from the internet, it doesn't change the fact that both of you tried writing prose on your own and failed miserably at it.   The Finns of this Community ALSO noticed it and corrected you as well. 

So what part of accurate is wrong?  I'm talking historically right or wrong, not morally.  I understand a nation in jeopardy of ceasing to exist will side with whomever gives them the best chance to survive.  I'm not condemning the Finnish like Rich is, merely stating facts.  I disagree with his approach to the facts.

Since I am wrong on all counts, I expect your response to the following points, or your response is mute.  I dare you to prove me wrong.  Correct these errors for me, as they have been my points.

Did the Finns not side with Germany in 1939 thru 1944?
Did Britain not declare war on Finland?
Did the United States not seize Finnish shipping assets and freeze monetary ones?
Did Finland allow recruitment for German units within their borders?
Did they not allow Luftwaffe aircraft refueling rights, and rearm them, during attacks within Russia, specifically during Barbarossa and attacks on Murmansk? (complicity)?
Did they not allow Wermacht units "holiday passage" though the country, at pretty much all times?


Was the Brewster Buffalo withdrawn from US service in 1941 due to to deficiencies with the airframe and performance?
Was the Buffalo almost completely withdraw from Finnish service and replaced by 109G2's by late 1942?

[Sakai]

Did the United States not seize Finnish shipping assets?

Yes but ony for the herring, those tasty, tasty herrings.

Mmmmmmmmmmhhhhh  . . . herring.

[Karnak]

Was the Brewster Buffalo withdrawn from US service in 1941 due to to deficiencies with the airframe and performance?
Was the Buffalo almost completely withdraw from Finnish service and replaced by 109G2's by late 1942?

No, to both.

Go read now.

[-pjk--]

MORAY37
Read my post.
Í am not noob who does not know history of my country, or history of ww2, or history of FAF(later beeng(pilots  view) more insight you ever get from internet or books)
We have tryed to do our best to translate  most of official Finnish reports, testflyes on our pages.
Please go to virtualpilots.fi  and go figure

[Motherland]

Was the Buffalo almost completely withdraw from Finnish service and replaced by 109G2's by late 1942?

The German Luftwaffe was still newly equipping units with the G-2 through mid-1942...
In fact, the contract for Finland to buy the first fighters wasn't signed until February 1st, 1943, and that was only for a squadron's worth of Messerschmitts.