Author Topic: porsche 911 (996)  (Read 11392 times)

Offline akusher

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Re: porsche 911 (996)
« Reply #90 on: July 02, 2009, 10:08:39 AM »
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<WANTS TO SEE PICS.

sorry bout caps up there......


don't care the make or model.......i like sleek fast cars.


i really liked the pics ge posted awhile back of his vette with the hooters girls.  :D

Let this hold you over:


Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: porsche 911 (996)
« Reply #91 on: July 02, 2009, 10:21:09 AM »
oo...and 7 seconds 0-60?????? that's pitiful by todays standards.........for almost anything.

Lol I don't know if you're talking about sports cars but for a heavy family sedan that's an ok figure especially considering it gets almost the same mpg as a prius.
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Offline CAP1

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Re: porsche 911 (996)
« Reply #92 on: July 02, 2009, 10:38:57 AM »
Lol I don't know if you're talking about sports cars but for a heavy family sedan that's an ok figure especially considering it gets almost the same mpg as a prius.

i'm not sure....i'd have to time it.....but i think my 85 E-350 does 0-60 faster than that. granted, it gets REALLY bad mileage, but still........i think i saw a kid on a moped go by here  accelerating faster than that.   :x
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Offline Die Hard

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Re: porsche 911 (996)
« Reply #93 on: July 02, 2009, 11:59:47 AM »
neither are the others but its pretty much the only way to compare.

Yes they are.



I'm with Gordon Murray on the Veyron, for me its like Vuiton luggage - its only purpose is to remove money from the pockets of people too rich to know better. For the same money you could buy eg:
Pagani Zonda +
Aston DBS +
Corvette Z06 +
430 Scuderia +
Maserati Quattroporte +
plenty left over for a 4x4, town car and a Ducati :D

And none of those can hold a candle to the Veyron in terms of luxury, technology, exclusivity (only 300 will be made) and hypercar'ness. The Bugatti Batobile costs VW about $8 million per car; considering that, I think the $1.4 million price tag is quite generous. Parked next to a Veyron no one will notice any of those other cars. Well, maybe the Zonda, it's after all a $350,000 hypercar.


« Last Edit: July 02, 2009, 12:02:39 PM by Die Hard »
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Offline akusher

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Re: porsche 911 (996)
« Reply #94 on: July 02, 2009, 12:11:42 PM »
I'll see your Veyron and raise you a $1.2 million Zonda R--of which single, or low double-digits will ever be built


Offline Die Hard

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Re: porsche 911 (996)
« Reply #95 on: July 02, 2009, 12:21:32 PM »
The Zonda R is a track car that will blast the Veyron on any track, but you can't pick up serious women with it. Nor do you look very dignified driving it unless you're a young playboy. The Veyron is to hypercars what the Maybach is to luxury limos: In a class of its own.
It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence.

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Offline akusher

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Re: porsche 911 (996)
« Reply #96 on: July 02, 2009, 12:31:47 PM »
The Zonda R is a track car that will blast the Veyron on any track, but you can't pick up serious women with it. Nor do you look very dignified driving it unless you're a young playboy. The Veyron is to hypercars what the Maybach is to luxury limos: In a class of its own.

Ok, now this is a real debate...

You'll do fine in a Veyron, but just as the Maybach has the Rolls Royce Phantom with which to contend, I believe that if the goal is trolling high-end night spots, there are alternatives...

For those serious women who prefer a front engine design:




Offline Die Hard

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Re: porsche 911 (996)
« Reply #97 on: July 02, 2009, 12:46:53 PM »
That's perfect if your young or middle-aged and fit. However, how will you look in it if your bald, fat and wrinkled, like most people who can afford these cars? That's the thing about the Veyron: It looks dignified, exciting yet discrete, extremely luxurious and comfortable, yet fast and nimble enough to fit in the super/hyper car category. The Veyron is perfect for someone who lives in a chateau, takes the Maybach to work, and the Veyron to dinner ... with the Queen of England or someone just as prestigious.





There are many cars that can outperform the Veyron, but that's not really the point with the Veyron.
It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence.

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Offline Saurdaukar

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Re: porsche 911 (996)
« Reply #98 on: July 02, 2009, 02:00:00 PM »
Anybody here have any experience with these cars?

Specifically, how to spot oil seal leakage without waiting for a puddle to collect on the garage floor?

Did not read the whole thread but I am assuming that you are thinking of purchasing one and don't have a week to spend in the seller's garage.  With that in mind, I am actually going to try and talk you out of a 996...

As with any P-car, the first rule you must follow is to get a PPI (Pre-Purchase Inspection).  For between $200 and $300, you can avoid making a far costlier mistake.  I would not go to a dealership for this unless you have no alternative.  There are specialty Porsche/German speed shops in most major cities who know the cars far, far better than parts-changers at dealerships.

This sort of inspection will also give you a relatively clear answer to your initial question about oil seepage. 

That said, oil seepage, in many forms, plagues the 3.4L and 3.6L normally aspirated engines installed into Boxsters (986 & 987), 996's and early 997's.  The 3.6L engine in the Turbo is different entirely is not affected.

The primary culprit of oil seepage is the RMS (Rear Main Seal).  This seal has a tendency to... well... its just not well designed.  To replace the seal, the engine needs to come out.  This is slightly more expensive than an oil change.  Sarcasm there.

Problem number two with the 3.4L and 3.6L N/A motors is the failure of the IMS (Intermediate Shaft).  Again, not well designed.  The details surrounding exactly *why* the IMS fails are still being worked out since the 996 is still a relatively new car and Porsche is silent on the failure rate.  It is thought, currently, that oil collecting around the IMS and the bell-housing might be a sign of impending failure.

Either way, an IMS failure is catastrophic.  Your engine is done.  While thats bad enough, the design of the engine does not really allow it to be rebuilt.  It must be replaced. 

The trend here, with respect to both of the above captioned issues, as examples, and the car as a whole (apologies to 996 owners), is that Porsche built their first disposable 911.  Early examples from 40+ years ago are still driving.  996's, in 40 years, will all be in junk yards. 

The build quality and design philosophy reflects Porsche's financial situation at the time.  Cars like the Boxster, Cayenne and, unfortunately, the 996, were designed to make money and keep the company independent.  While this is obviously preferable to say, Mercedes Benz scooping them up, the cars built during this period reflect that philosophy.

Its a shame, really, because the 996 is a great car to drive.  Very capable, quick enough, a boatload of fun and more advanced than previous versions of the 911.  Unfortunately, cost aside, one of the biggest reasons that say, Ferrari owners end up defecting to Porsche, was lost.  That reason was absolute reliability. 

By and large, you can drive the air cooled cars forever so long as they are well maintained.  It is not uncommon to see 3.0L's or 3.2L's from the late 70's through the 80's with 200,000, 300,000 and, in some cases, even 400,000 miles - and no engine work.  The same can not be said of the newer cars and the failure's don't seem to follow any methodology.  Some fail at 80,000 miles and some fail at 5,000 miles.

Point is, while the 996 may seem like a really attractive buy right now - and it is a lot of car for the money - there is a reason it is so cheap, second-hand, and the older cars actually fetch higher prices.

Now, on to those older cars... if you have never driven either of the previous two models, the 993 (1995-1998 in US) or the 964 (1989-1994 in US), you really owe it to yourself to try them.

In my not so humble opinion, the 993 is pretty much the best automobile the company ever made.  Not an assembly line job, the car feels, especially in comparison to the rattle trap 996, like is was carved out of a solid block of granite.  They are arguably the last of the stereotypical "German engineering" cars.  Built like a bank vault and will go forever no matter how you abuse them.

The 993 is not without its issues.  The 96-98 cars with OBD-II emissions have an issue with clogged SAI (Secondary Air Injection) ports.  You can read more on it independent of this discussion, but the emissions farce that went into effect that year required a CEL (check engine light) to fire if the ports were clogged.  The ports do substantially nothing.  They are an emissions "gadget" which reduces emissions for about 15 seconds after start up.  There are ways around the CEL, but its a pain.  You can clean the SAI ports but it is difficult.  Ultimately, like all the air cooled cars, you will need a top end rebuild anyway, at which point you can deal with the SAI and the weak valve guides which Porsche has been installing in 911 engines since the car was introduced.  Why they didnt start using a harder metal in the 60's is beyond me...

Regardless, now that Im off on a tangent, try one of the older, air cooled cars.  I prefer them in every aspect to their water-cooled brethren.  They are more fun to drive, they have all the smells, sights and sounds you expect and, if you take care of them, they will provide you with years of trouble free ownership.

Besides, they just dont make hips like this anymore...  The rest of ya can keep your Italian trash.  ;)




Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: porsche 911 (996)
« Reply #99 on: July 02, 2009, 02:15:04 PM »
i'm not sure....i'd have to time it.....but i think my 85 E-350 does 0-60 faster than that. granted, it gets REALLY bad mileage, but still........i think i saw a kid on a moped go by here  accelerating faster than that.   :x

There are many 'GTI' european models that are slower than that. I'm fairly certain that 90% of the cars circulating around here are slower than that.

In US it might be different because you're used to oversized engines with the cheap gas.
Definiteness of purpose is the starting point of all achievement. –W. Clement Stone

Offline akusher

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Re: porsche 911 (996)
« Reply #100 on: July 02, 2009, 02:17:04 PM »
Saur,

Thanks for the lengthy response. As soon as you said you were gonna try to talk me out of it, I knew you were going to discuss the 993, and I've thought about it myself.

The issue, which i guess is a symptom of the quality and longevity, is that they're harder to find and more expensive. Owners, I'm assuming just hold on to them for much longer. The best ones I've been able to find in my price range have around 60-70k miles on them.

They're way better looking than the 996, that's indisputable.

I'm no rush, however. Maybe I'll get lucky in the coming weeks.

Just last friday I saw a gray turbo pull up next to me at a light and I stared at it so long i think the owner started to get a bit creeped out. It looked perfect, and had that shape that makes the newer ones look like hybrids.


Offline CAP1

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Re: porsche 911 (996)
« Reply #101 on: July 02, 2009, 02:19:54 PM »
There are many 'GTI' european models that are slower than that. I'm fairly certain that 90% of the cars circulating around here are slower than that.

In US it might be different because you're used to oversized engines with the cheap gas.

 a 2.0L is oversized? or a 1.6?  :D


actually, what pisses me off a LOT, is that it seems europe has clean cars that run forever on a gallon of gas, or deisel, and perform nicely.......and we SHOULD have that here, but we don't.........
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Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: porsche 911 (996)
« Reply #102 on: July 02, 2009, 02:28:27 PM »
Whaddaya mean?



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Offline Masherbrum

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Re: porsche 911 (996)
« Reply #103 on: July 02, 2009, 02:34:38 PM »
When did I ever use the word "sucks" in reference to the Veyron?

--since you put it in quotes, I'm assuming you're quoting...

I said that I wouldn't buy it even if I had the money. I don't like the way it looks, and I'm not a big fan of the whole package. To me, it's excessive. I never once claimed that it was an unimpressive piece of machinery, or devoid of merit.

What I did say was that a 1 ton Ferrari would beat it on any track--eluding to the FXX-based f70. Which isn't blind at all, but a fact... RT made my point better than I did when he cited Nurburgring times. The FXX is, mile for mile, about 9% faster than an Enzo. Therefore it stands to reason that a lighter, street-legal derivation would approximate this edge. Period.

There may be many things about which I'm ignorant, but when it comes to cars that I can't afford, I assure you that I have respect enough for just about all of them to read up on the subject

Just don't get me started on Lamborghinis  :)

Again, the Ferrari's you mentioned except the Scud are trailer queens.   "Excessive" is a car more expensive than a faster car, that you could DRIVE to the track and give the "Trailer Queen" fits.   You know what you implied and I called you on it.   No offense was intended, but it is incorrect to state in the first place. 

As Die Hard pointed out, the Veyron's "time" is "Unofficial".   Do with that fact, what you wish.   Aside from the fact that the Veyron still maintains a 4.9:1hp Power to Weight ratio.   I wouldn't look at the Ferrari's as they aren't much better considering the "1 ton extra weight".    :eek:
« Last Edit: July 02, 2009, 02:36:20 PM by Masherbrum »
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Offline akusher

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Re: porsche 911 (996)
« Reply #104 on: July 02, 2009, 02:42:11 PM »