Plane crashes into car in air show

[Mustaine]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/8150639.stm

all survive, even the pilot 

[eagl]

You can kind of see the spin "hang up" a few times which probably threw off his count and timing, and then in the end it looked to me like he could have saved it but he pulled it deep into the stall and held it there so instead of flying it out and possibly making it, he had a wing dip and mushed it into the ground.

Basically from the entire maneuver setup including the pushover at the top and the weird looking spins, it looks like the pilot just ham-fisted the whole thing.  Botched spin, pulled it into the stall, and held it there.  Lack of "touch" or skill, lack of experience, or lack of experience flying that specific plane?  Could be anything but it looked to me like he made a number of errors in basic stick/rudder execution of the maneuvers.

[bcadoo]

You can kind of see the spin "hang up" a few times which probably threw off his count and timing, and then in the end it looked to me like he could have saved it but he pulled it deep into the stall and held it there so instead of flying it out and possibly making it, he had a wing dip and mushed it into the ground.

Basically from the entire maneuver setup including the pushover at the top and the weird looking spins, it looks like the pilot just ham-fisted the whole thing.  Botched spin, pulled it into the stall, and held it there.  Lack of "touch" or skill, lack of experience, or lack of experience flying that specific plane?  Could be anything but it looked to me like he made a number of errors in basic stick/rudder execution of the maneuvers.

Yeah, he should spend some time in the mossie here.  No ham fisting allowed in that thing.

[Mustaine]

You can kind of see the spin "hang up" a few times which probably threw off his count and timing, and then in the end it looked to me like he could have saved it but he pulled it deep into the stall and held it there so instead of flying it out and possibly making it, he had a wing dip and mushed it into the ground.

Basically from the entire maneuver setup including the pushover at the top and the weird looking spins, it looks like the pilot just ham-fisted the whole thing.  Botched spin, pulled it into the stall, and held it there.  Lack of "touch" or skill, lack of experience, or lack of experience flying that specific plane?  Could be anything but it looked to me like he made a number of errors in basic stick/rudder execution of the maneuvers.

I won't pretend to know any of the technical aspects of it, but you are exactly right. about 1/4 way down it looked "wrong" compared to the professionals I have watched. I'm just shocked at:

The impact of the collision tore the undercarriage off the aeroplane and left it and the car in a nearby field.

The married couple, who were in the car at the moment of impact, suffered scratches while their daughter suffered some injuries, but no-one had to be taken to the hospital. The pilot also suffered minor injuries but did not need to go to hospital.

[CyranoAH]

Definitely a botched spin. After a couple of turns it looks like he wants to stop it in a descending 45 line, but instead he spins another two full rotations. At that point you can clearly hear how he has cut power to idle and knows he has messed up big time. The Pitts (all variants) falls like a rock, he's real lucky to have recovered just in time.

Biggest mistake is he started the figure with very little height (no safety margin whatsoever).

Most crashes in aerobatic displays at airshows come after a botched gyroscopic maneouver towards the ground.

Daniel

[Shuffler]

That my friends is why driving a car is more dangerous than flying. While in a car you might get struck by a plane. 

[Bosco123]

He snapped it pretty bad, and I'm pretty sure I could hear him playing with the throttle, which would tell me that he was tring to use the torque to try and pull it out. By then, he was going to slow becasue he wasplaying with the throttle and just stalled it. 

[CAP1]

You can kind of see the spin "hang up" a few times which probably threw off his count and timing, and then in the end it looked to me like he could have saved it but he pulled it deep into the stall and held it there so instead of flying it out and possibly making it, he had a wing dip and mushed it into the ground.

Basically from the entire maneuver setup including the pushover at the top and the weird looking spins, it looks like the pilot just ham-fisted the whole thing.  Botched spin, pulled it into the stall, and held it there.  Lack of "touch" or skill, lack of experience, or lack of experience flying that specific plane?  Could be anything but it looked to me like he made a number of errors in basic stick/rudder execution of the maneuvers.

agreed.....and it shows all too well, why FAA states that aerobatic maneuvers must be recovered at a minimum of 1500 feet AGL. i think i have that right.

[Golfer]

agreed.....and it shows all too well, why FAA states that aerobatic maneuvers must be recovered at a minimum of 1500 feet AGL. i think i have that right.

For your average joe, yes.  You can receive a waiver and demonstration of aerobatic competency taking you all the way to ground level.  They can be issued in increments to take you down from 1500' where the most common I've seen have been 500 and ground level.  This is issued for the make and model of airplane you'll be flying in so having a waiver in a Pitts doesn't mean you can go fly the same maneuvers in a Mustang.  It also must be subject to an evaluation each calendar year.

[CAP1]

For your average joe, yes.  You can receive a waiver and demonstration of aerobatic competency taking you all the way to ground level.  They can be issued in increments to take you down from 1500' where the most common I've seen have been 500 and ground level.  This is issued for the make and model of airplane you'll be flying in so having a waiver in a Pitts doesn't mean you can go fly the same maneuvers in a Mustang.  It also must be subject to an evaluation each calendar year.

i didn't know that........thanks!!

 

me personally.....if/when i do stalls, i'll keep myself at least 3 mistakes high. 

[steely07]

Wonder if the wind that can be heard in the video was also a factor, although, certainly, he's ham-fisted that spin, the last couple rotations look very unplanned to me.

Steely

[eagl]

A flight control or other aircraft malfunction could also have caused or contributed to the accident scenario.  Maybe he had no elevator controls left and he's the best pilot in the world because he didn't just ride it in.  Hard to tell from that vid.

[Lusche]

The plane after the crash.

Local media are still only speculating about the reasons (and with not much knowledge about the subject at all - one very renowned national newspaper speaks of a "failed looping" ), the authorities are investigating and the pilot is refusing to give any statement on the matter.

[CyranoAH]

Doesn't look like a flight control malfunction. After a snap, you can lose rudder, but in that case, there's no way he could have pulled out of it.

As I said, looks like he's trying a 45º descending departure after the snap, but he enters a spin which becomes flat in no time because of the power setting. When it becomes clear he can't fly it out, he cuts power and tries to save the situation, which he almost does.

As for the height, in CIVA championship rules, he can go as low as 300 feet if he's an unlimited pilot. In displays, depends on the country, but as Golfer said, you can get a zero-feet waiver or an Ace Card in the US. In Germany, I believe there's no such system, but I'm not positive.

In any case, from personal experience, I wouldn't go with a snap in a downline with the Pitts that close to the ground. Too tricky. A Sukhoi or an Extra, that's a whole different story.

Daniel

[eagl]

Doesn't look like a flight control malfunction. After a snap, you can lose rudder, but in that case, there's no way he could have pulled out of it.

An elevator control failure could leave the elevator full up or just flapping, and then it would have been nearly impossible to stop the spin.  If the elev was flapping in the wind but trimmed nose-up, it could have caused him to have to use torque and/or ailerons to force the plane out of the spin, at which time the plane would seek it's trimmed airspeed following the dive recovery.  That could pull it into that mushing stall, again if the elev was not controllable and it was trimmed full nose up.

Try it in AH...  Put in about 2/3 nose-up elev trim, enter a spin, and then try to recover the plane with rudder, aileron, and throttle.  If it comes out of the spin (some will, some won't, depends on HT's coad and it might still require fwd stick to break it out of spin mode) it's likely that it'll climb up into another stall after the initial dive recovery.

A few years ago, I managed to recover a spinning AH P-47 without using forward stick, so the flight model appeared to still want to spin the plane even with controls neutral, level flight, over 200 kts.  It was like flying a plane with negative stability, with the nose wanting to snap off no matter what speed I was at.  I finally pushed far enough fwd on the stick to exit that particular flight model quirk.  I think HT or Pyro fixed that little quirk a long time ago, but I never bothered to try to repeat it or verify that it couldn't be done anymore in the game.