Squad Dedicated Ride

[oakranger]

Done Nef. 

Oakranger what Stoney said.

There is absolutely no guarantees on rides or sides. All we doing is making the information of a dedicated ride available, if not obvious to a CiC. What they do with that information is up to them. Most will try to put squads in their preferred ride, or now a dedicated ride, but if they don't or can't, life goes on.

OK, so some of the sqas (JG2, 11 and any other LW sqa) will have the ride when axis in European.  Not much of a selection when they fly 109, 190, 110 so on.  But you have groups like 353rd, who is a P-51/P-47 sqa, will have to to fly what is given to them with a wider selection of A/C if they fly allies.  What i trying to say, if 353rd FG is assigned B-24 when p-51 and p-47 available.  353rd will most likely fail with bomber because we don't fly them.  Most ppl in the sqa don't fly them.  As a sqa, we will not met our objective and hurt allies chance in winning the framed.  

[daddog]

You lost me Jax. First you said.

So why bother? No reason to set preferences or attempt to secure the rides that the squadron flew historically. Why bother with historical names.

Then you said.

...but consideration should be given to squads that make an attempt at historical representation.

I am bothering with this because it gives a CiC just that much more information that may help a squad to get their 'historical' ride. It is the consideration that you and others are asking for.

Again, (and I have said this several times in this thread) if you don't want to list a ride, don't. For you then nothing would change. If you liked it the way it was then don't list a dedicated ride.

OK, so some of the sqas (JG2, 11 and any other LW sqa) will have the ride when axis in European.  Not much of a selection when they fly 109, 190, 110 so on.  But you have groups like 353rd, who is a P-51/P-47 sqa, will have to to fly what is given to them with a wider selection of A/C if they fly allies.  What i trying to say, if 353rd FG is assigned B-24 when p-51 and p-47 available.  353rd will most likely fail with bomber because we don't fly them.  Most ppl in the sqa don't fly them.  As a sqa, we will not met our objective and hurt allies chance in winning the framed.

Oak, I can't do anything about a squads selection. We work with what HTC develops.
If a squad is assigned B-24's and they are a P-51 squad they are expected to do the best they can. Just the way it has been for the past 8 years. Yes it would be better if they were assigned P-51's, but that is the call of the CiC. Maybe he had little choice and needed to do it that way. No telling.

[mtn-paradoc]

for myself...thanks!

  I joined the jolly rogers because of what I saw in the ma and because they flew the corsair. It's good to know that we  may be up in corsairs on fso nights.
     Hell, i'll fly anything, i just like fso's....but really...is there a cooler plane then the corsair?

[oakranger]

I understand daddog.  I am sure it is a consent compliant you guys get all the time.  I am please that the ACMs are make effort of new events and making new maps. You guys are doing a great job with FSO.  However, the ride assignments is one area that i get frustrated when given rides we didn't even requested. 

[AKKaz]

read the whole post and understand what your doing, but do have a few things on it.

Understand the CiC still is the assigner of aircraft, but I would think that with the listing for this they will most likely utilize it when the aircraft come available. (Not speaking for them, just thinking they would)

There are times when "limited" high end rides are in play, does the same squad get them for 3 frames when it fits their historical ride?

Scenerios utilizing alot of buffs, if they go by this doesn't that put many of the other squads on 3 frame buff duty?

Understand that these matchups may not come up alot, but with some scenerios types of aircraft choices are limited so there might be some small chance as an example that axis luftwaffe or Pacific american could go as high as 50% historically assigned. Would this be rotated each frame or is this meant to be a 3 frame assignment?

[Stampf]

OK, so some of the sqas (JG2, 11 and any other LW sqa) will have the ride when axis in European.  Not much of a selection when they fly 109, 190, 110 so on.  But you have groups like 353rd, who is a P-51/P-47 sqa, will have to to fly what is given to them with a wider selection of A/C if they fly allies.  What i trying to say, if 353rd FG is assigned B-24 when p-51 and p-47 available.  353rd will most likely fail with bomber because we don't fly them.  Most ppl in the sqa don't fly them.  As a sqa, we will not met our objective and hurt allies chance in winning the framed.  

Not correct,

Last European set up, JG11 requested Fw190 A5, Fw190 A8, and Bf109 G6.

We were assigned respectively. Bf 109 G2, Bf 109 F4, and Ju 88.

So no, European based Axis units are not guaranteed anything, nor is anyone.

I don't think some people here are understanding this concept.  It is simply a guide, an extra bit of info about the squads, nothing more.  It remains the CIC's responsibility to assign  squads into aircraft based on request, past recent assignments, and the best allocation of forces, in order to get the job done and win the day.  Nothing different there.

[RATTFINK]

I don't think some people here are understanding this concept.  It is simply a guide, an extra bit of info about the squads, nothing more.  It remains the CIC's responsibility to assign  squads into aircraft based on request, past recent assignments, and the best allocation of forces, in order to get the job done and win the day.  Nothing different there.

Well said.

[ghostdancer]

As already said but worth repeating, the CiC of a side assigns aircraft. A "dedicated ride" listing or the "frame ride preference" listing does not guarantee you any ride.

So what does it do?

It tries to provide a CiC with information about an individual squad so that he can better define his battle plans. In the case of a dedicated ride he might see that say some squad has list the P-47 as their dedicated ride. Which probably means they are really good in it since they specialize in it. So logically a CiC would probably want to tend to put a strong that specializes flying the P-47 in P-47s when he gets a chance.

A frame ride preference just indicates that for this FSO that you would like to fly x, y, and z but is not an indication to a CiC if you have any special capability in that plane type. A dedicated ride indicates a specialization or focus.

Now also remember that a CiC has to usually assign 20 squads to tasks so even with both of these preference types listed he might still have to task you into another plane type. In addition we CMs do try to remind CiCs to try to make sure that nobody gets stuck flying somethings multiple times in a row (its why in my objectives I list the previous rides for squads). So that for instance that you pull bomber duty all three frames or fly all the best fighters all 3 frames. But hopefully the information of the "dedicated ride" will provide the CiC with information that should increase your odds of getting that ride for 1 frame out of 3 (when applicable).

[daddog]

Ya he put that well Ratt.

What Stampf said.

I don't think some people here are understanding this concept.  It is simply a guide, an extra bit of info about the squads, nothing more.  It remains the CIC's responsibility to assign  squads into aircraft based on request, past recent assignments, and the best allocation of forces, in order to get the job done and win the day.  Nothing different there.

I think I will save that to my clipboard and just copy and paste for pages 6, 7, 8, and 9.

[TUK]

Still have a percentage of squads not even filling in their (frame ride pref's).
Perhaps the squads that a have a (deticated ride) or historical ride request, could just do this.
Example;
Frame 1 = Spit VIII (dedicated)
Frame 2 = B24's
Frame 3 = Anything to help..
When i type my cic orders I look at the ride prefs and their previous frame rides. Try my best to get them in the ride they want or one closest.
However, I have a hard time letting a squad fly all fighters of their choice in every frame.  Just my opinion.. tuk151
13Th MPG favorite ride= All

[Shifty]

Not correct,

Last European set up, JG11 requested Fw190 A5, Fw190 A8, and Bf109 G6.

We were assigned respectively. Bf 109 G2, Bf 109 F4, and Ju 88.

So no, European based Axis units are not guaranteed anything, nor is anyone.

I don't think anybody is asking for a guarantee. I know I wasn't when I approached Daddog with this idea. I was just asking for a tool so CIC's could give it consideration.
If you were assigned a 109G2 or 109F instead of a 109G6 I still see that as positive. Just like I would if we asked for the F4U-1A and or the Hellcat and were assigned the F4U-1... Close enough we'll take it and thanks! If it's not our historical bird in a setup... I'll pretty much fly anything, that's the way it is with FSOs especially if your aircraft isn't a constant for most FSOs as some aircraft are. If our historical bird is in  setup.. Yeah I'd like us to be give some consideration, at least put some effort into it anyway. Also if we were assigned say P-51s during an ETO and the 353rd was in P-38s, or something else and not getting a shot at their historic ride... Just PM us, I'd gladly make room for guys to get a shot at their squads historic ride and arrange a swap if the CIC was willing. If the Navy birds are not there I'm pretty much game for any bird and like to see other people get their squads historic or signature bird. Stampf if you guys went months without seeing 109s or 190s in a setup but instead saw months of Hellcats and Corsairs. Then when you did finally get your birds in a setup, you might get a bit miffed too if you were not assigned the German fighters while a US Navy squad was in the 109s or 190s. Guarantees...No. Consideration... Yes.

[Stampf]

Shifty,

Something in my reply to Oaktree's post lead you to believe I was against this idea?  I love it, and agree wholeheartedly about consideration.  In fact, we as a squad discussed prior ro requesting Allies this operation, that we would switch sides with any USN squad that got assigned Axis.  When JG11 came to FSO, the CM's, and player base at the time were all like,  "WooHoo, finally a dedicated Axis unit", as DD mentioned, most side requests are heavy on the Allied side and light on the Axis.  We generally request Axis in the Pacific for just this reason as well, so as to show fairness and continuity in our Axis status, even though most of the squad prefers PTO Allied over IJN anyday of the week.  I can tell you personally that in 72 FSO sorties, I have flown the Corsair once, and the Hellcat three times.  That's it.

It's difficult enough to make sense of some of these posts, and my sole purpose was to demonstrate that no unit, Axis or Allies is guaranteed anything, nor does any unit Axis or Allies get there favorite ride regardless of theatre, contrary to Oak's statement about Luftwaffe rides.  I fail to see the similarity he asserts between the Bf110, and/or JU88, compared to the 109 and 190, other than country of deployment.  And I was not complaining about our assigned rides in Husky either, just demonstrating to Oak that in three frames, we did not get the ride we hoped (requested) for.  None of the three assignments were seen as a negative by us, and we endeavored to perform our mission to our best like every week.  Certainly we have never complained about any assignment, nor would we, as long as how you say it, the CiC's show some consideration, and at least some effort or evidence of forethought in distributing ride assignments and role assignments as fairly as possible within the given constraints of the Operation and participants.

[Shifty]

Shifty,

Something in my reply to Oaktree's post lead you to believe I was against this idea? 

Not at all, I just wanted you to write me. 

Seriously I wasn't looking at it as if you disagreed at all. I was just making sure this little bug I put in Dadog's ear was seen for what it was. A request for consideration not a demand of any stripe. I just replied and used your example of plane assignements and ended up talking to you in the thread. My bad. Stuff like this is going to make the FSO better in some regards but at the same time it requires give and take, and in some cases a little extra time for folks who happen to be in the CIC barrel. Seriously though I'm all for helping squads get their historic or signature ride. All squads not just the one I'm in.
<S> Dave.

[Stampf]

Not at all, I just wanted you to write me. 

  You never call anymore...


Clear as crystal on all the rest.

[Jaxxon]

I am bothering with this because it gives a CiC just that much more information that may help a squad to get their 'historical' ride. It is the consideration that you and others are asking for.

I apologize if I made it sound like I don't think this is a good idea because I do. Our past success at getting what we request hasn't been the greatest.
There are other factors that contribute to squadrons not getting a "historical ride" or their requested ride or side that I'm well aware of and I hope that your efforts make a difference.