Tower pad for GVs

[Rich46yo]

I think we should have tower pads near GV spawns.

A guy upps a Tiger, spawns in and does everything right, then when he wants to leave he gets chased around by IL2s and bombers with no real hope of making it the distance needed to successfully tower out. Now an enemy can even land, re'arm, and still chase down the Tiger before he makes it to the tower distance.

Mind you I am not a proper tanker. I pretty much only hunt tanks. But my view from the air see's things pretty one sided regarding IB spawning GVs. I would like to see more moving of the spawns around. Possibly even only allowing players to see their own spawns, not the enemies. That would cut back on spawn camping and that, and finding some way to make towering out easier, would energize the armor war.

Which would put more targets in my IL2s sights.

Any skew right now in the GV war I dont see as vehicle related but more like rule related. Tankers should be able to spawn perked tanks and have a more reasonable chance of towering out.

Thank you.

[vonKrimm]

Tankers should be able to spawn perked tanks and have a more reasonable chance of towering out.

Must disagree.  Disengaging from contact from the enemy on the ground is difficult at the best of time in the RW.  Lot different than disengaging in the air.  The GVers are provided the opportunity to tower safely if no enemy is within 6k, an opportunity not available to the pilot in the air.  So, easier to disengage in the air, harder to safely land; harder to disengage on the ground, easier to land. 

[waystin2]

+1

[AWwrgwy]

Must disagree.    The GVers are provided the opportunity to tower safely if no enemy is within 6k, an opportunity not available to the pilot in the air.  

Anywhere.  Even an empty enemy base.

I'd rather have it the way it is now.  Imagine camping the "Tower Pad". 

 


wrongway

[slimmer]

+100

[Rich46yo]

Must disagree.  Disengaging from contact from the enemy on the ground is difficult at the best of time in the RW.  Lot different than disengaging in the air.  The GVers are provided the opportunity to tower safely if no enemy is within 6k, an opportunity not available to the pilot in the air.  So, easier to disengage in the air, harder to safely land; harder to disengage on the ground, easier to land. 

Apples and oranges. Airplanes have nothing to do with GVs. Gvs cant go 350 mph+ to make it home to a tower pad. Instead they have to motor, and motor, and motor, then tower hoping like heck nobody is around them. So a better comparison would be I just "follow" your fighter home in my own fighter and prevent you from tower out cause I stay within 6k of you. Or whatever the distance is. I always thought it was the width of 1/2 a dar circle. However far that is.

Thats another thing. With an airplane you pretty much know if somebody is around you. In a GV, or ground level, you never have any idea. Most of all when you spawn in. So you upp an M4, fight for awhiles, then spend 20 mins driving back out hoping nobody is close to you can you sure cant see it.

Thats why there are so many Panzers and T-34s/75s that spawn in. Nobody worries to much about losing them. And with so much airplane activity around enemy bases The odds of getting far enough back, with no enemy around, is pretty low. unless you want to spend an hour making sure and driving to timbuktu.

Camping the tower pad? they already camp the spawn so if anything it would dilute the firing line. Besides you would think you have a far better chance beating a tower pad camper then a spawn camper. Where you are basically helpless.

[AKP]

I see your point Rich, but I have to disagree. 

The GV spawns that are located outside of the base, are not meant to represent a "mobile" or "forward deployed" GV base of any kind.  They are meant to represent that the tanker has driven the 10 miles (or whatever the distance is) from his base, undetected, and is now in a position to commence his attack.  It cuts out the monotonous drive time that everyone would have to cover if GV's had to up like aircraft do.  All they are for is to make GV'ing in this game more viable.  If we all had to drive that distance instead of instantly popping up at spawn points, GV's would become a purely defensive weapon... and hardly ever used to attack bases with.

As it is now, GV's dont spawn at exactly the same spot at a remote spawn point... from what I have seen, they are within a certain (very short) distance of it, but in random locations around it...  I have seen this happen all the time, both with GV's I am fighting, and when I am upping at a spawn point.  If you were add a fixed "pad" at GV spawn points, it would be a lot easier for opponents to find and camp the location... actually making it harder for a GV to reach safety.

The way it works now, is that the GVer has made it to the spawn point undetected by the enemy.  If he wishes to disengage without penalty... he must have no enemies near him to do so... simulating that he has again, slipped away undetected... and made it back to his base.  It isnt meant to simulate that he hopped out of his tank in the middle of enemy controlled territory, and got away unscathed.

GV's DO have a distinct advantage over air units in the fact that they can be resupplied at anytime, as long as there are supplies dropped within range.  Aircraft must disengage, and land.  I cant tell you how many times I have turreted or tracked a tank from the air, only to have him instantly resupply himself and keep going like I never even scratched him... while I have to haul my smoking hunk of metal back to the airfield and hope I make it.  GV's also have the ability of not being able to have their icon be visible at the ranges that aircraft are, making it much easier for them to slip away and leave the battle area.

The key is using any available cover, coordinated supply drops, and patience to coordinate the attack, and the withdrawl.  I think it balances out pretty well as it is.

[Ghosth]

Good post AKP

The only sure fire way of exiting a sortie in a GV is to take the field you attacked.
Then when they are all dead, and the ack is no longer fireing, you have a pretty good chance.

Since I assume its more about getting your name in lights (X kills in a _____) than anything else, you just have to be smart and foxy enough to get separation, persuasive enough to get help with supply's, etc.

I do at times wish, that there was some kind of an indicator. Just a small led in the cockpit that would tell you. You could even use the old "Beacon" light.

Red = Enemys close (inside 3k)
Yellow= Enemys far  (between 3 - 6k)
Green= all clear        (nothing inside of 6k)

Since GV's do not have icons to point out enemy GV's. At least give them an indicator when it should be safe to exit. Then its up to us to gain the separation to safely exit.

[AKP]

I do at times wish, that there was some kind of an indicator. Just a small led in the cockpit that would tell you. You could even use the old "Beacon" light.

Red = Enemys close (inside 3k)
Yellow= Enemys far  (between 3 - 6k)
Green= all clear        (nothing inside of 6k)

Since GV's do not have icons to point out enemy GV's. At least give them an indicator when it should be safe to exit. Then its up to us to gain the separation to safely exit.

Thanks Ghosth,

This might be a good solution for GVer's.  But perhaps just a red and a green indicator.  Red = Enemy within 6K, Green = All clear.  If you know that the enemy is within 3K, it can take away the ability for other tankers to ambush incoming ground forces that are rolling in.  And... if you have a couple of other good tankers with you, you could use that beacon as a "bad guy finder"... letting you triangulate his position.  Hehe... I know I would.

Also... the "no enemies within 6K" rule should include an enemy base or town... even if there isnt a enemy unit in it at the time.  Well... maybe not 6K for towns and bases, but you shouldn't be able to disengage from battle unscathed from INSIDE an opposing town or base... even if there are no enemy units present.  In reality, there are... they just haven't gotten into their tanks yet.  Air units cant bail without being captured inside the enemies "dar" ring.

[AKP]

Well... maybe not 6K for towns and bases

Yeah... on second thought, it should be 6K for towns and bases too if there was going to be a "safety beacon".  That way, while you WOULD be able to tell when it is safe to disengage, you wouldn't know if it were a enemy unit, or the base that was setting off your beacon.  Keeping the beacon from being used as any sort of magical, tactical tool.

Another thought, would be to make the icon visibility range for a NON MOVING GV be even lower than one that IS MOVING.   I have often thought that it should be harder for me to spot a GV from the air that is hidden in the trees, and not moving, as opposed to one that is rolling.  This has no effect on other GV's... since there is no icon for opposing tanks when you are fighting them on the ground, but it does give the GV on the ground a better chance to hide undetected when he just wants to sit still and wait for supplies, reinforcements, or the chance to slip away from air units that are looking for him.

[Rich46yo]

The GV spawns that are located outside of the base, are not meant to represent a "mobile" or "forward deployed" GV base of any kind.  They are meant to represent that the tanker has driven the 10 miles (or whatever the distance is) from his base, undetected, and is now in a position to commence his attack.  It cuts out the monotonous drive time that everyone would have to cover if GV's had to up like aircraft do.  All they are for is to make GV'ing in this game more viable.  If we all had to drive that distance instead of instantly popping up at spawn points, GV's would become a purely defensive weapon... and hardly ever used to attack bases with.

I understand this. I'm not talking about spawn points. I'm talking about the towering out procedure for spawning GVs.

As it is now, GV's dont spawn at exactly the same spot at a remote spawn point... from what I have seen, they are within a certain (very short) distance of it, but in random locations around it...  I have seen this happen all the time, both with GV's I am fighting, and when I am upping at a spawn point.  If you were add a fixed "pad" at GV spawn points, it would be a lot easier for opponents to find and camp the location... actually making it harder for a GV to reach safety.

Hahaha. Yeah I dig what your saying. On the other hand Ive seen spawn areas ringed by tanks with flocks of IL2s and A-20s ready to pounce. With all that firepower it becomes irrelevant if the spawn is exactly the same place or not. Its fixed enough. They might as well spawn right on top of each other for all the good the current spawn separation does them.

Also an enemy GV spawning in is basically blind and helpless until enemy rounds give him a rough location of the ring of fire around him. A GV motoring toward a tower pad would have the luxury of being the hunter themselves. And not just the poor, sad noob spawning into a ring of 6 years Vets sitting in their Low rider Tigers. Add to that the towering GV is motoring "towards" his own lines and not "towards the enemy". Add to that tower pads be hidden on maps except to the home team. Add to that the spawning team can camp their own spawn pad where'as its very hard to camp your own spawn.

And whether or not we get tower pads is not really the point. The point is we need a better formula for spawning GVs to tower out. I just use the pad as a possible solution.

The way it works now, is that the GVer has made it to the spawn point undetected by the enemy.  If he wishes to disengage without penalty... he must have no enemies near him to do so... simulating that he has again, slipped away undetected... and made it back to his base.  It isn't meant to simulate that he hopped out of his tank in the middle of enemy controlled territory, and got away unscathed.

Then shorten the distance needed. As it is now the distance is to great and the GVs have no chance. Even worse they plain have no way of knowing if an enemy GV is close enough or far enough because they are hidden by terrain. Basically you are rolling the dice.

GV's DO have a distinct advantage over air units in the fact that they can be resupplied at anytime, as long as there are supplies dropped within range.  Aircraft must disengage, and land.  I cant tell you how many times I have turreted or tracked a tank from the air, only to have him instantly resupply himself and keep going like I never even scratched him... while I have to haul my smoking hunk of metal back to the airfield and hope I make it.  GV's also have the ability of not being able to have their icon be visible at the ranges that aircraft are, making it much easier for them to slip away and leave the battle area.

You cant be resupplied if you are dead. Assuming anyone thought to bring supplies along.

Exactly! Aircraft can disengage fly home and land. Exactly my point. I have turreted many a tank too. And many times Ive kilt them outright in one pass. But "supplies" and "airplanes" aren't the issue here Towering out is.

Tanks can hide but eventually were going to find them. If they are moving, and they must to get away, we will find them. Who really wants to sit in a barn for 30 mins anyway, hoping no airplane or enemy GV is active, waiting for you chance to scurry away, praying like heck you are far enough? Who wants to do that and how is it helping the game?

The only sure fire way of exiting a sortie in a GV is to take the field you attacked.
Then when they are all dead, and the ack is no longer fireing, you have a pretty good chance.

Pretty much yeah. It doesn't happen much does it? And is that fair? To only give spawning GVs a one way ticket, victory or death?

I think the way things are set up now the game is slowed and it doesn't reach its potential in the GV war. And because spawning tanks into airfields is pretty much a one way ticket far fewer perk tanks are spawned in. Tigers are very difficult to find because who's going to spawn a Tiger when the odds are your going to lose it? If the odds said you have a 90% chance of losing a ME-262 would anyone bother upping them?

[Anaxogoras]

Similar ideas have shown up here before.  I'm in favor of it...

[AKP]

Rich... again... I understand your point... but, it simply makes no sense to have a spot of "holy ground" where a tank can just magically land if they are under fire... and land their kills.  Here is a scenario:

1) Wirble ups from the "sacred" tower pad.
2) Wirble sits on pad while popping planes that come in and try to take him out.
3) Wirble gets turreted
4) Wirble "lands" while surrounded by enemy planes and lands his kills.
5) Wirble reups at same pad and does it again...

Simply put, GV's in real life HAVE to get away from opponents and return to a safe area... one that is defended and in friendly territory in order for the crews to get home, get some chow, and brag about their kills.  They dont hop out of their tanks in the middle of the battle zone, with enemy units all around them, and cry "Olly-olly-ox-in-free... I'm on base... you cant get me now!"  

Fact is... GV's ARE at a disadvantage when compared to planes... as they should be.  Air power is the biggest fear of a tank crew... or any ground unit for that matter.  

What ground forces need to do is support each other.  A tiger that rolls into a base alone to try and pop buildings deserves to get hammered... it was alone.  But get your teammates to support you with flak, supplies, troops, and other tanks... and the tiger has a darn good chance of not only being a part of taking the base, but coming home if things get too bad... and doing so without a penalty.

I dont think there needs to be a huge change in how GV's disengage... but rather a change in the tactics GV'ers use to attack bases.  Very rarely do I see actual coordinated ground attacks.  Its usually one or two GV's making a full speed run on a base or town to try and take it down.  If they get killed, they hop in another one and do it again.  What needs to happen is for teams to plan a ground assault.  Decide in advance how many of each GV type is going in, what the support units are going to be, and what the exit plan is.  NO ONE ever has an exit plan.  

And the same DOES apply to aircraft.  In order for an aircraft to safely get home, they have to disengage, outrun their opponents, and land at a friendly base.   Yes, aircraft are faster... but the principle is the same.  You cant just bail in your 262 over enemy territory and get to land your kills, or keep your perks.  Nor can you land a Tiger, surrounded by opponents, and get to do the same.

What DOES sound better, is a way as Ghosth mentioned for a GV driver to know when he is in a safe area, so he CAN land and get to keep his perks and his kills. 

[Scratchman]

Rich I understand what you are asking for, but IMHOP would cause more problems for GV'ers than help. Bottom line when I spawn in to an area, I have saved the time driving there. And I know if I up a perked tank, ( which I almost always do ), I know if I have kills to land successfully, then I will have to use cover and evasive tactics to get away far enough to land those kills. I've had times where I had to drive for 40-50 minutes to do so. But can you imagine having to drive that distance both ways? To me that is but one part that makes GV'ing so challenging. You just have to accept the fact that if you up a perked tank that there are risks involved much like when you up a perked bird. They are just different. 

[Rich46yo]

Rich... again... I understand your point... but, it simply makes no sense to have a spot of "holy ground" where a tank can just magically land if they are under fire... and land their kills.  Here is a scenario:

OK, lets not get silly here. Im not talking about "holy ground" or "sacred tower pads" so theres no need for drama.

Im talking about making it easier for GVs to tower when they spawn in. Tower pads are an possible solution. Shortening the radius needed to tower is another. It would be the same for everyone and nothing "holy" for anyone.

An airplane knows when hes pursued or not. Spawning GVs dont know. An airplane only has to reach concrete and he knows He's safe. A GV has to run like Hell and pray nobody is around him.

I never said the tower pad and spawn point would be the same. Or even in the same area.

Theres only one topic to the thread. Frankly your getting far off base from it.