Thanks from the SAPP 38 drivers

[Guppy35]

1. It's not an analogy, it's  an uncontentious claim.

2.Division- when we reason that  whatever is true of the whole must be true of each of the parts.

I hope this makes ack ack's claim more clearer.

I note you didn't respond to my question

[iTunes]

I didn't know that it was I who had to respond to your question, You never indicated anywhere that I was to answer it.

Lets look at your question:"And if I find it insulting, offensive and a lack of integrity for someone not associated with a group I helped to start in AH, using the logo in their sig?  And those folks are from your JG54?"

I can't find anything to  answer. The first part of the question:"And if I find it insulting, offensive and a lack of integrity for someone not associated with a group I helped to start in AH, using the logo in their sig? " That's a statement rather than a question. I can't find anything there that requires an answer. Your writing that you find "it" insulting, offensive and a lack of integrity for someone not associated with a group that you helped to start in AH, using the logo in their sig. There's nothing to answer, your telling us/me how you feel.
The second part:"And those folks are from your JG54?" There's no linkage between that part and the first part.

I'm assuming that you claim there are members of JG54 using a logo created by you and this upsets you? If that is the case, that indeed you are upset by some members of JG54 using a logo  created by you then you should find out who these members are  and tell them that you are upset by this.

Hope this helps.
iTunes.

I notice that after my explanation of Ack Ack's post that there was no comment(s). If my reasoning behind the offending post is not clear enough then lets have a discussion about it.

[CAP1]

I didn't know that it was I who had to respond to your question, You never indicated anywhere that I was to answer it.

Lets look at your question:"And if I find it insulting, offensive and a lack of integrity for someone not associated with a group I helped to start in AH, using the logo in their sig?  And those folks are from your JG54?"

I can't find anything to  answer. The first part of the question:"And if I find it insulting, offensive and a lack of integrity for someone not associated with a group I helped to start in AH, using the logo in their sig? " That's a statement rather than a question. I can't find anything there that requires an answer. Your writing that you find "it" insulting, offensive and a lack of integrity for someone not associated with a group that you helped to start in AH, using the logo in their sig. There's nothing to answer, your telling us/me how you feel.
The second part:"And those folks are from your JG54?" There's no linkage between that part and the first part.

I'm assuming that you claim there are members of JG54 using a logo created by you and this upsets you? If that is the case, that indeed you are upset by some members of JG54 using a logo  created by you then you should find out who these members are  and tell them that you are upset by this.

Hope this helps.
iTunes.

two of the members of jg54 are using sapp logos. they happen to be two members that are somewhat less than respectful to others in these forums, and ingame. they are trying to associate themselves with sapp.

 sapp is a group of pile-its that love the p38. it's place in history, it's looks, it's flight characteristics, pretty much everything about it.

 we also fly for one reason, and one reason only. fun. we don't care if we win a fight or lose a fight. we just love being down n dirty in the treetops havin fun.

an example.........a standard sapp landing(i'm still in training, so ya hafta pardon that there's so much aircraft left......





i was pretty proud of that one.
i chased this guy....we started out a little higher than this.......



one of the slower times during this furball...it was even side v side, as there was one bogie that just overshot me in this pic....



this is the kind of fun we try to have. we don't grief anyone. we don't horde anyone. we back off from the base when the fight gets too close, so that they can get up, and get to a good fighting speed.

 we go fly, and die. sometimes we land................
 the members in question, spend their nights trying to stir up poop on 200 to the point that a lot of people squelch em. they don't come down and fight......well......n7 does. i kinda like fighting him, although i always lose. beardawg comes down sometimes too.......but then he's not one of the ones greifing all the time.

[iTunes]

Great pictures Cap. It amazes me what some people can do with such a large aircraft. Some of you guys must have been flying for years to get really good in the 38. Lets look at Shuffler, he's a great 38 flier. I've never seen him up high swooping down, He's always down low in the mix so to speak. I know this as often I've seen a 38 and the next thing-Shuffler has stuck me in the tower   Still, it's great to fight with guys like that.
I just wish that we could all carry that same spirit onto the bbs, however, given human nature, it's a forlorn hope.
Cheers
Tunes.

[stodd]

I didn't know that it was I who had to respond to your question, You never indicated anywhere that I was to answer it.

Just an observation from the side here- You were the one talking about being insulted and offended then the question Guppy35 asked stating that he felt insulted about a member(s) of your squad's actions is clearly linked and directed towards you.

[CAP1]

Great pictures Cap. It amazes me what some people can do with such a large aircraft. Some of you guys must have been flying for years to get really good in the 38. Lets look at Shuffler, he's a great 38 flier. I've never seen him up high swooping down, He's always down low in the mix so to speak. I know this as often I've seen a 38 and the next thing-Shuffler has stuck me in the tower   Still, it's great to fight with guys like that.
I just wish that we could all carry that same spirit onto the bbs, however, given human nature, it's a forlorn hope.
Cheers
Tunes.

SHUFFLER is the main reason i finally got the balls to start flying the 38. i had wanted to for a long time. but i knew/know it's a hard bird to fight in.
 i was flying my hellkitty. i see this 38 low and slow....if i recall, he had just finished off another aircraft....prime for the quick kill. whelp........about 45 seconds later i'm in the tower. i go back, and he's engaged with 2 others. i figure the hell with it.....i'll join in. took him all of a minute that time.
 so i jump into a 38j. same thing. 1-1, he put me in the tower again. but the funny thing........he put out on 200 what i did wrong. i corrected that problem, and i was doing better. every single fight against him is/was incredibly fun, and a great learning experience. he's great to wing with too.
 i like flying with ALL of the sapp dudes.
 that furball i posted pics from......guppy was trying to warn me a couple times of impending doom should i not turn hard and NOW......then as parts came off(i had target fixation), and i landed all over the forrest, he graded me.   i think the highest i got was a 9.5.  

 that's how everybody is in sapp. we find something fun in almost everything.

 i would imagine that if you could convince your squaddies to stop flinging poo, and remove the sapp logo, it may help............i don't expect ya to do that, but what's the worst that can happen by me asking?

[stodd]

but what's the worst that can happen by me asking?

Ummm get reported. 

[CAP1]

Ummm get reported. 

eehh....reported..........ooo oo noeesssssssssssssss

wait....i need to say something mean to make it worth it........


poopiehead!!!!!

 

[Guppy35]

I didn't know that it was I who had to respond to your question, You never indicated anywhere that I was to answer it.

Lets look at your question:"And if I find it insulting, offensive and a lack of integrity for someone not associated with a group I helped to start in AH, using the logo in their sig?  And those folks are from your JG54?"

I can't find anything to  answer. The first part of the question:"And if I find it insulting, offensive and a lack of integrity for someone not associated with a group I helped to start in AH, using the logo in their sig? " That's a statement rather than a question. I can't find anything there that requires an answer. Your writing that you find "it" insulting, offensive and a lack of integrity for someone not associated with a group that you helped to start in AH, using the logo in their sig. There's nothing to answer, your telling us/me how you feel.
The second part:"And those folks are from your JG54?" There's no linkage between that part and the first part.

I'm assuming that you claim there are members of JG54 using a logo created by you and this upsets you? If that is the case, that indeed you are upset by some members of JG54 using a logo  created by you then you should find out who these members are  and tell them that you are upset by this.

Hope this helps.
iTunes.

I notice that after my explanation of Ack Ack's post that there was no comment(s). If my reasoning behind the offending post is not clear enough then lets have a discussion about it.

Since I quoted your post talking about integrity I thought you might get the connection.  Both Stodd and Cap have explained it again.  Do you need more clarification?

[iTunes]

Just an observation from the side here- You were the one talking about being insulted and offended then the question Guppy35 asked stating that he felt insulted about a member(s) of your squad's actions is clearly linked and directed towards you.

Guppy never asked a question. Guppy never asked me a question.

Just an observation from the side here- You were the one talking about being insulted and offended(A) [then] the question Guppy35 asked stating that he felt insulted about a member(s) (B) [of ]your squad's actions is clearly linked and directed towards you.(C)
A I was talking about being insulted and offended.
B the question Guppy asked said he felt about a members(s)
C Your squad's actions is clearly linked and directed towards you.
The point of your argument is to link A-C I can't do this, your argument is unrepairable. My personal feelings are somehow related to the  actions of JG54? Where's the conclusion? If A but not B, but C, B is the conclusion. If C but not A means that B has to be as strong as C.
Hope this help.
Tunes.

[iTunes]

Since I quoted your post talking about integrity I thought you might get the connection.  Both Stodd and Cap have explained it again.  Do you need more clarification?

I made some assumptions in an earlier post about your post and I answered it to the best of my ability. I also asked a question RE: Ack Ack's comment, I haven't seen one line either in agreeing or disagreeing- that is,  using division. I have proved conclusively that Ack Ack did indeed use division as a means to argue. I have proven that his comments were not sound. I haven't had any feedback yet. I'll write what division is again, just so we are all clear- When we reason that whatever is true of the whole must therefore be true of the parts-it's a fallacy.

I invite anyone to read Ack Ack's earlier post RE: dung and post if I have this mistaken. I expect an apology from Ack Ack and ask him to reconsider his post. Or I can use his own logic, and that of Stodd, and others and assume that the "fun. integrity" of SAPP is not true and the whole of SAPP (in game) must be just like their actions on this bbs.
Regards
Tunes.

[CAP1]

Guppy never asked a question. Guppy never asked me a question.

Just an observation from the side here- You were the one talking about being insulted and offended(A) [then] the question Guppy35 asked stating that he felt insulted about a member(s) (B) [of ]your squad's actions is clearly linked and directed towards you.(C)
A I was talking about being insulted and offended.
B the question Guppy asked said he felt about a members(s)
C Your squad's actions is clearly linked and directed towards you.
The point of your argument is to link A-C I can't do this, your argument is unrepairable. My personal feelings are somehow related to the  actions of JG54? Where's the conclusion? If A but not B, but C, B is the conclusion. If C but not A means that B has to be as strong as C.
Hope this help.
Tunes.

ok......

i used to have really long hair, back when i rode a lot.always in the obligatory leather bijker jacket, and the boots, torn heans.
 those were the people i hung with a lot of the time.
 people used to cross the street to avoid me(and i'm nowhere NEAR being a badass). but i was judged by the way i looked, and the people i hung with....and yes, i do think it is wrong, but it's the way it is.
 six years ago, i finally grew up a bit, got a normal haircut, and started dressing a little more my age......neater jeans, sneakers or clean combat boots. if i'm on my way to or from a CAP event, i'm in some sort of uniform....either bdu;s or dress blues, or flightsuit...whichever is required for the mission.
 people come up to me asking what i do now. no one tries to avoid me. now i'm still being judged by the people i hang with.......and i still think it's wrong.....but it's the way it is. i'm exactly the same person i was back then, but with short hair, and ended up going a different path in life than my biker friends.

 the point is, that we are ALL judged by the company we keep. on line, in real life, where ever........

 like i said in my earlier post......most people think i'm a landgrabber, soley because that's what my current squad does.
 the fact is that i fight in the air. sometimes i'll support them in their attempt, as they may need the help...or it may help to propogate the fight......but i'm by no means a landgrabber.

 so by these examples, it doesn't matter if you're a saint or not. you're going to be judged by the people you choose to associate with here.

 this is by no means an attack on you, i'm just trying to explain this side of the situation to ya.  again, it's not right.....but we all do it. it's human nature.....

 i don';t dislike ya just because you're in the jg54.......but i also don't trust ya either.....because you choose to associate with people like some of them are.
 i have no qualms with larry or n7 either...but i feel the same about them as i do you.....no dislike, but no trust either.

[Guppy35]

Guppy never asked a question. Guppy never asked me a question.

OK Tunes, since we're gonna tap dance.

It bothers me that N7 and Storch or whatever ID he uses now, are presenting themselves as part of SAPP.  They are both JG54.   They are not associated with the SAPP 38 guys in anyway.  To represent themselves as such is insulting and shows a real lack of class and integrity, something you referred to in the post I quoted.  Frankly I think it's disrespectful of something I started and take some pride in.  

As a member of JG54 are you comfortable with people associated with you misrepresenting themselves that way?

If folks want to get into individual pissing contests, that's up to them.  I could care less.  I've not taken part in it, nor do I intend to other then to question 2 members of JG54 misrepresenting themselves as part of SAPP.

[Ack-Ack]

I made some assumptions in an earlier post about your post and I answered it to the best of my ability. I also asked a question RE: Ack Ack's comment, I haven't seen one line either in agreeing or disagreeing- that is,  using division. I have proved conclusively that Ack Ack did indeed use division as a means to argue. I have proven that his comments were not sound. I haven't had any feedback yet. I'll write what division is again, just so we are all clear- When we reason that whatever is true of the whole must therefore be true of the parts-it's a fallacy.

I invite anyone to read Ack Ack's earlier post RE: dung and post if I have this mistaken. I expect an apology from Ack Ack and ask him to reconsider his post. Or I can use his own logic, and that of Stodd, and others and assume that the "fun. integrity" of SAPP is not true and the whole of SAPP (in game) must be just like their actions on this bbs.
Regards
Tunes.

Apologize for what?  Here, I'll try it again with more politically correct terminology so as not to offend your delicate sensabilities.

When one hangs around trash, is one not surprised they start to smell like a garbage man? 

Go ahead and report this post too, as I said it's something your squadron has shown itself to be quite proficient at.


ack-ack

[iTunes]

OK Tunes, since we're gonna tap dance.

It bothers me that N7 and Storch or whatever ID he uses now, are presenting themselves as part of SAPP.  They are both JG54.   They are not associated with the SAPP 38 guys in anyway.  To represent themselves as such is insulting and shows a real lack of class and integrity, something you referred to in the post I quoted.  Frankly I think it's disrespectful of something I started and take some pride in.  

As a member of JG54 are you comfortable with people associated with you misrepresenting themselves that way?

If folks want to get into individual pissing contests, that's up to them.  I could care less.  I've not taken part in it, nor do I intend to other then to question 2 members of JG54 misrepresenting themselves as part of SAPP.

I'm not trying to tap dance, I'm trying to reason. I'm reasoning to show that using a term to describe the whole is wrong. I haven't anywhere, anytime said or written anything about a separate issue that you don't like. I haven't on any occasion said or written anything about the alleged involvement of members/ex members in that issue you are referring too. I haven't on any occasion said or  written anything in anyway, that mentions being comfortable with anything. My responses have been aimed at what is being said about an individual (me) on a group basis. Two separate issues and there is no linkage, none whatsoever between the two. My argument is in trying to show this, but unfortunately I can't seem to get this message across. Once again, If I use the same logic used by you and others in SAPP or have some form of relationship with SAPP, then Ack Ack's comments are from everyone in that organization, and I object being referred to as "dung."
I can then only assume that SAPP think and refer to me as "dung"." I find that disappointing and unreasonable.