What's a "rope, fake rope?".

[moot]

ya know?

i managed to rope a c2 the other day. i did it a couple times actually. the problem i have, is capatlizing on it. i see others do this, and they drop on em, and kill em. i do it, and i can't seem to get my nose back down and on to the target before they regain enough speed  to maneuver.

You need to come down earlier, obviously.  So the stumbling block seems to be judging their speed.  Try to reverse at the same time as you usually do, but a couple of seconds earlier.  So you'd be relying on an instinct that's already built and reliable (you consistently come around just a bit too late).

[mtnman]

well, i fly the p38J almost exclusively.......so i may need to "read" the other guy a little better, or just react quicker.....i know other guys in 38's do it well.......

It's a refinement to your technique that's missing, that's all.  

Getting the guy to follow you up, and stall out under you, is just a part of the process.  As you're seeing, it doesn't actually accomplish anything beyond that.  It doesn't give you the kill...

"Reading the other guy" is very important.  It's part of the ongoing, all-encompasing SA required to succeed regularly.  Being able to accurately read his E-state, capabilities, etc, and weigh them against your current possibilities is a basic requirement.  You can't rope a guy who's going to catch you on the zoom, regardless of whether he's faster, or can cut across the "corner" you create by going too vertical too quickly (even if he's slower than you).

The first requirement might be to assess whether you CAN rope him.  Then whether you SHOULD rope him (other bad guys around?).  And then it's still up to him whether he'll LET you rope him.

If all that goes ok, and he's roped, you still need to be set up properly to score the kill, and that's actually the most difficult part.  You want him to stall, but YOU SHOULDN'T.  You want enough speed to maneuver over the top.  If you stall and flop, time is wasted before you can recover the ability to line up your shot.  By that time, it may be too late.  I like to be coming over the top with about 130mph, generally assisted by a notch or two of flaps, which I retract AS SOON as my nose is down, because they screw up my ability to line up the shot.

Position is important.  He can't be too far away on the horizontal plane, but I don't particularly like him directly under me either.  The "final placement" of his stall in relation to you is important (and if you're not stalled, you CAN adjust it by adjusting your own position).

Stalling under you isn't enough either.  HOW FAR under you matters.  Stalling 600 below you is too close, and he may even pop you from there.  Stalling 2k below you is bad too, he'll be nose-down and maneuvering before you can reverse and shoot him.  

What I like, is a guy who's on the verge of stalling at about 1200 to 1.5K below me, while I'm still going up at about 130.  There's a lot of "judging" going on, because I want to come over the top just as he hits his stall, so as he's just started to hang, my nose is already pointed back at him.  This means beginning my reversal BEFORE he stalls, but not too soon, or I may get shot.  Timing is crucial, as is the ability to judge his situation.  With my nose down, I want to see him hanging about 800-1000 below me.  That gives me just enough time to line up a shot and kill him.  I also need to be under sufficient control to dodge his debris, or him, if I've mis-judged.  He should be hanging/flopping and helpless when I take my shot.

[mtnman]

Here are a few short rope films.  Nothing fancy, but then again most ropes aren't...

http://www.mediafire.com/file/zn3jdijegmx/Zeke rope.ahf

http://www.mediafire.com/file/wzoxukgtjoz/Spit rope.ahf

Almost missed the spit, hehe!

[boomerlu]

What I like, is a guy who's on the verge of stalling at about 1200 to 1.5K below me, while I'm still going up at about 130.  There's a lot of "judging" going on, because I want to come over the top just as he hits his stall, so as he's just started to hang, my nose is already pointed back at him.  This means beginning my reversal BEFORE he stalls, but not too soon, or I may get shot.  Timing is crucial, as is the ability to judge his situation.  With my nose down, I want to see him hanging about 800-1000 below me.  That gives me just enough time to line up a shot and kill him.  I also need to be under sufficient control to dodge his debris, or him, if I've mis-judged.  He should be hanging/flopping and helpless when I take my shot.

Personally I prefer the spiral climb in a better climbing bird. It's not a guaranteed kill, but it's a great way to reverse situations and bleed the other guy's energy.

It's also safer than a straight rope - you are giving your opponent an out of plane 90 degree deflection shot. You've got to be an absolute sniper with insane control of your plane to land it. I've frequently had my opponent close to 200-400 ish range and miss.

The profit isn't as great. They have more time to recover (this maybe an issue with my judgment and technique, I probably could be dropping back down a bit earlier). On the other hand, you don't need so much separation at the end, and it's "sneakier" - they won't spot it as a straight rope and that will encourage your opponent to blow E trying to get the shot.

[Steve]

Cap, I posted a couple of short films in this thread that will help you. I keep them at about 800 yards so they are close enough that they will try to pull for a gun solution as I spiral, thus they bleed more E.  Moot is right, the trick is to nose back down sooner,  over their canopy before they actually stall but after they have the E to pull their nose up that little bit farther for a gun solution. When they have this nose up attitude, there is no opportunity for them to evade.  It just becomes a matter of effective prosecution of your attack on a helpless opponent.

Boomer, spiraling in a better climbing  bird is fine, but to do it in a worse climbing bird is even more effective as your quarry is more likely to try to continue the rope. People love to chase my pwny up ropes.

Cap, here's those films just to save you  a search.  They are quite short so they won't tie you up with a long download.              

http://www.mediafire.com/file/eujdwmjizmw/spiral rope_1630.ahf

http://www.mediafire.com/file/4tmmxgkteoj/rope 2.ahf

[boomerlu]

Wow, great kills!

I'm suggesting a slightly different spiral rope. Your kills are great and they show a very effective highly vertical and tight spiral. They demonstrate really great timing as well.

The difference with what I'm suggesting is that you execute these with a sizable E-advantage. With that advantage, you can afford to pull far more vertical.

The type of spiral climb I use is much shallower, good to equalize E using a superior climbing bird. Example... Pony chasing a 109K4 from about 2k out, with decent 50 mph speed advantage. 109 goes into a shallow spiral, uses his climb to equalize E states and to slowly drain the Pony. At the top of the spiral, both planes are slow, but the 109 is above the pony and gives a 90 degree deflection shot to the pony, which the pony can't hit. 109 nose downs to chase once he sees the 51 no longer has nose-on.

Slightly different execution and situation, same concept. I may modify my version to go nose down as soon as I see tracers - that means the chaser is pulling lead and blowing E quickly and the 90 degree deflection is no longer necessary.

[CAP1]

i think the link to zeek rope, and spit rope are corrupt. there's no ground, and they cause my film player to shut down after a few seconds.

the other two are good..........



thanks steve, and mtnman

[boomerlu]

i think the link to zeek rope, and spit rope are corrupt. there's no ground, and they cause my film player to shut down after a few seconds.

You have not downloaded the requisite terrain files. Get them and it should display fine.

[mtnman]

i think the link to zeek rope, and spit rope are corrupt. there's no ground, and they cause my film player to shut down after a few seconds.

the other two are good..........



thanks steve, and mtnman

That happens to me if I don't have the correct terrain loaded.  For example, I play the game on a partition that I only use for AH.  I generally watch films on my "main" partition though, and have the problem you mention if the flim I want to watch is on a different terrain than I have loaded in my "main" partition.  I just copy the terrain, and the problem goes away.

[CAP1]

That happens to me if I don't have the correct terrain loaded.  For example, I play the game on a partition that I only use for AH.  I generally watch films on my "main" partition though, and have the problem you mention if the flim I want to watch is on a different terrain than I have loaded in my "main" partition.  I just copy the terrain, and the problem goes away.

ok.......now i'm getting confused?

if i;ve flown the maps in the arenas, then doesn't that mean they're loaded? or is it possible to fly a different terrain on any given map(what you see on your screen)?

[mtnman]

Personally I prefer the spiral climb in a better climbing bird. It's not a guaranteed kill, but it's a great way to reverse situations and bleed the other guy's energy.

It's also safer than a straight rope - you are giving your opponent an out of plane 90 degree deflection shot. You've got to be an absolute sniper with insane control of your plane to land it. I've frequently had my opponent close to 200-400 ish range and miss.

The profit isn't as great. They have more time to recover (this maybe an issue with my judgment and technique, I probably could be dropping back down a bit earlier). On the other hand, you don't need so much separation at the end, and it's "sneakier" - they won't spot it as a straight rope and that will encourage your opponent to blow E trying to get the shot.

Yea, I use a whole variety of different rope manuevers, disquise them, and transition in and out of them as opportunity arises, or is lost.  I just thought I'd show the simplist one, which works on the majority of the players I try it on.

[mtnman]

ok.......now i'm getting confused?

if i;ve flown the maps in the arenas, then doesn't that mean they're loaded? or is it possible to fly a different terrain on any given map(what you see on your screen)?

No, if you've flown the map in the arena, it's loaded.  For some reason, you don't have the map loaded in your AH folder that I was on when I filmed.  You probably haven't flown on that map yet, so it hasn't been d-loaded into your folder yet.  That's why the film viewer errors-out when you try to watch it.  PM me your email, I'll copy my terrain folder and email it to you.  If you copy it into your AH folder, you'll have all the terrains I do, and those two films will then work.

I have two versions of AH on my computer.  One on each of two partitions.  I use one version for playing, and one for watching films.  The version I use for playing obviously has all the maps loaded that I've flown on.  Since I don't fly on my second version, the maps never load/update.

The only reason I do that, is because I like to play AH with all but the minimum required processes running in the background.  I restart my computer before I play AH, and when it starts, I tell it to use my "gaming" partition.  On that partition, I only have windows XP and AH loaded, and most of the processes for XP turned off.  No firewall, no AV, no nothing just the game.  It helps me run the game faster/smoother.  I don't need to turn any processes off, or worry about auto-updates, or spyware on that partition, because it is only used for playing AH.

For all other PC use, I use my "normal" or "main" partition.  Email, surfing the web, any other work I do is done here.  Because my computer runs in this partition 95% of the time, I often watch my AH fiilms on it, and never watch them on my "AH" partition.  If I play the game, and a new map loads, when I try to play that film on my "other" partition, the viewer crashes, because it doesn't recognize the terrain.  A 10 second copy/paste fixes the issue.

[mtnman]

Or just go to the AH Home Page and download the terrains you don't have in your AHTerr folder.  It'll be one or more of the ones in the top section, since I haven't participated in any of the special events.

[boomerlu]

Man these kills are so good - I gotta try these timing variations on my ropes now!

[CAP1]

it just hit me.....i don't often go into lw arenas. that's probably why i don't have the terrain.