Author Topic: Poor B17  (Read 2700 times)

Offline Die Hard

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2205
Re: Poor B17
« Reply #30 on: September 03, 2009, 08:39:37 PM »
By mid-1944 the 8th Army Air Force in the UK had replaced their entire force every six months due to losses. It's incredible they could take such losses and fight on like they did. The Mighty Eight suffered 4,145 of the total 10,561 American air losses in Europe during WWII. On their worst mission they lost 26% of the bomber force in one day.

"On 2nd Schweinfurt/Mission 115 (14th October) as part of Pointblank, fifty-nine Flying Fortresses were shot down over Germany, one ditched in the English Channel on the return flight, five crashed in England, and twelve more were scrapped due to battle damage or crash landings, a total loss of seventy seven B-17s. 122 bombers were damaged to some degree and needed repairs before their next flight. Out of 2900 men in the crews, about 650 men did not return, although some survived as POWs. Five were killed and forty-three wounded in the damaged aircraft that made it home, and 594 were listed as Missing in Action. Only thirty-three bombers landed without damage.

A total of 77 aircraft destroyed - out of a force of 291."
« Last Edit: September 03, 2009, 08:57:43 PM by Die Hard »
It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence.

-Gandhi

Offline 1pLUs44

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3332
Re: Poor B17
« Reply #31 on: September 03, 2009, 10:19:34 PM »
from the looks of that, everyone aft of the cockpit bought it..............

<<S>> to them

I just don't think it's too funny people joking about a video like this, when in reality, they're watching someone kill someone else. It may not be all that brutal because there's no typical TV gore, but regardless of who it was, or what side shot down who, you're watching someone's last terrifying seconds of life, before they crash and burn, and in some instances, like in the pacific, are never seen again. Never return to their families.
No one knows what the future may bring.

Offline CAP1

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 22287
      • The Axis Vs Allies Arena
Re: Poor B17
« Reply #32 on: September 03, 2009, 10:26:31 PM »
I just don't think it's too funny people joking about a video like this, when in reality, they're watching someone kill someone else. It may not be all that brutal because there's no typical TV gore, but regardless of who it was, or what side shot down who, you're watching someone's last terrifying seconds of life, before they crash and burn, and in some instances, like in the pacific, are never seen again. Never return to their families.

i wasn't making any jokes about this? how do you get to me making a joke??

i respect the hell out of those guys, for what they did, and what they gave up so we can have what we have.
ingame 1LTCAP
80th FS "Headhunters"
S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning in a Bottle)

Offline 1pLUs44

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3332
Re: Poor B17
« Reply #33 on: September 03, 2009, 10:41:51 PM »
i wasn't making any jokes about this? how do you get to me making a joke??

i respect the hell out of those guys, for what they did, and what they gave up so we can have what we have.

It isn't centered at you at all, I'm sorry. Just in general for that first page.

:salute
No one knows what the future may bring.

Offline CAP1

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 22287
      • The Axis Vs Allies Arena
Re: Poor B17
« Reply #34 on: September 03, 2009, 11:01:39 PM »
It isn't centered at you at all, I'm sorry. Just in general for that first page.

:salute

aahh...you quoted my post....so i thought you were refering to it.........sorry dude.....

btw..if anyone lives on the east coast...hit the mighty eighth air museum in georgia. they have a LOT of good stuff.

theres some "home" type movies that they play on a wall sized screen.........from crew members in the 17's on the way in........it can bring tears to your eyes........
ingame 1LTCAP
80th FS "Headhunters"
S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning in a Bottle)

Offline lyric1

  • Skinner Team
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10590
Re: Poor B17
« Reply #35 on: September 04, 2009, 12:18:54 PM »
Popped back in to the local B17 took some pics.

 
Top of ammo box.
 
Gunners entrance.
     
Hole for ball turret.

Engine mounts.
 
Bomb bay doors.

Wing tips.


Norden Bombsight.
 
Location of a fuel tank inside of wing.
 

       
This picture is the under side skin of the wing & would have been mounted on the inside of the wing that was to be thrown away. When they found that Irene Noel & Carlos took some time to scratch some art work on way back in the 1940's when this plane was being built.

What the plane will look like.


Plus a few of what it once looked like.
 

Offline ToeTag

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1113
Re: Poor B17
« Reply #36 on: September 04, 2009, 02:04:38 PM »
aahh...you quoted my post....so i thought you were refering to it.........sorry dude.....

btw..if anyone lives on the east coast...hit the mighty eighth air museum in georgia. they have a LOT of good stuff.

theres some "home" type movies that they play on a wall sized screen.........from crew members in the 17's on the way in........it can bring tears to your eyes........

Pass it atleast once a month but I have never been in there.
They call it "common sense", then why is it so uncommon?

Offline Reaper90

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3322
Re: Poor B17
« Reply #37 on: September 04, 2009, 02:18:51 PM »

btw..if anyone lives on the east coast...hit the mighty eighth air museum in georgia. they have a LOT of good stuff.

Thanks for the reminder, Cap, I've driven right past it many times on the way back and forth from Myrtle Beach (home) to the racetrack at Pooler, GA, just a few exits south of the museum. I'll make it a point to go and take the family soon...
Floyd
'Murican dude in a Brit Squad flying Russian birds, drinking Canadian whiskey

Offline CAP1

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 22287
      • The Axis Vs Allies Arena
Re: Poor B17
« Reply #38 on: September 04, 2009, 02:23:11 PM »
Pass it atleast once a month but I have never been in there.

dude!! stop in there. you won't be dissappointed.  :aok
ingame 1LTCAP
80th FS "Headhunters"
S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning in a Bottle)

Offline 63tb

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 152
Re: Poor B17
« Reply #39 on: September 04, 2009, 04:20:36 PM »
How did the 8th's losses compare to those the British suffered at night?

63tb

Offline CAP1

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 22287
      • The Axis Vs Allies Arena
Re: Poor B17
« Reply #40 on: September 04, 2009, 04:35:08 PM »
How did the 8th's losses compare to those the British suffered at night?

63tb

i think i read somehwere that the 8th air force's loss rate was in the ballpark of 60%. i don't recall reading much on the raf's losses at night.....butr i would imagine they were significantly less.

 if i recall reading, the raf stopped their daytime raids as they couldn't sustain the losses.


again, a frakkin BIGASSD  :salute :salute :salute :salute :salute :salute TO ALL OF THOSE GUYS.

 in all honesty, i REALLY don't know how they did what they did, and stayed sane. this is why in my eyes, they are the true heros in the world.
ingame 1LTCAP
80th FS "Headhunters"
S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning in a Bottle)

Offline Ack-Ack

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 25260
      • FlameWarriors
Re: Poor B17
« Reply #41 on: September 04, 2009, 04:36:46 PM »
The 8th AF losses
  • 4,754 B-17s
  • 2,112 B-24s

RAF Bomber Command Losses
  • 684 Stirlings
  • 1,884 Halifax
  • 4,265 Lancasters

Keep in mind that the losses tallied for RAF Bomber Command spands from 1939-145 and includes the periods of the early daylight mission raids over the mainland and night bombing missions over the mainland.  The numbers for both the 8th and RAF Bomber Command includes planes lost in operational service (shot down, crashes, etc.) and not just 'failed to return'.

As you can see by the numbers, the 8th AF lost more bombers and crews than the RAF Bomber Command.  If you consider that the 8th AF started their missions in '42 and only flew 3 years in combat, their losses were staggering and not surprising that they suffered a 25% casualty rate.


ack-ack
"If Jesus came back as an airplane, he would be a P-38." - WW2 P-38 pilot
Elite Top Aces +1 Mexican Official Squadron Song

Offline CAP1

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 22287
      • The Axis Vs Allies Arena
Re: Poor B17
« Reply #42 on: September 04, 2009, 04:46:10 PM »
The 8th AF losses
  • 4,754 B-17s
  • 2,112 B-24s

RAF Bomber Command Losses
  • 684 Stirlings
  • 1,884 Halifax
  • 4,265 Lancasters

Keep in mind that the losses tallied for RAF Bomber Command spands from 1939-145 and includes the periods of the early daylight mission raids over the mainland and night bombing missions over the mainland.  The numbers for both the 8th and RAF Bomber Command includes planes lost in operational service (shot down, crashes, etc.) and not just 'failed to return'.

As you can see by the numbers, the 8th AF lost more bombers and crews than the RAF Bomber Command.  If you consider that the 8th AF started their missions in '42 and only flew 3 years in combat, their losses were staggering and not surprising that they suffered a 25% casualty rate.


ack-ack

crew of 10 on the b17's i believe? and same on the 24's?

almost makes ya wanna cry................
ingame 1LTCAP
80th FS "Headhunters"
S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning in a Bottle)

Offline 63tb

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 152
Re: Poor B17
« Reply #43 on: September 04, 2009, 05:42:51 PM »
I remember reading that the 8th lost more men than the US Marines lost in the pacific. Is that true?

63tb

Offline CAP1

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 22287
      • The Axis Vs Allies Arena
Re: Poor B17
« Reply #44 on: September 04, 2009, 05:44:08 PM »
I remember reading that the 8th lost more men than the US Marines lost in the pacific. Is that true?

63tb

don't know, but would imagine so.......the mighty eighth was never turned back, never refused a mission, and never "didn't" complete a mission.

according to akak's numbers, assuming 10 man crews, that's 68,660 brave men lost.....just from the heavy bombers.....add in the light bombers, the fighters, etc............
« Last Edit: September 04, 2009, 05:47:09 PM by CAP1 »
ingame 1LTCAP
80th FS "Headhunters"
S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning in a Bottle)