cool down ...baby

[Anaxogoras]

It's not engine management, it's physics fidelity.  No player would need to do anything different from what they do today.

No, they wouldn't need to, but others would sure as hell have an advantage over them if they didn't.  Tell me how that's not "engine management."

Edit: I'm totally willing to admit you're correct, without qualification, if it will further the implementation of Widewing's idea.  I have no scruples.

[moot]

Uh.. ok. And moving the stick around is airflow management too.

[BnZs]

Uh.. ok. And moving the stick around is airflow management too.

Um, that's EXACTLY what moving the control surfaces is...

[Anaxogoras]

I violated the burden of proof when I asked you to demonstrate a negative.  Let's start over and forget whether something is management or not, because that word clouds the debate.

Widewing's idea would not require anyone to play the game differently, but it would give an advantage to those who knew to throttle back when they could to recharge WEP.  Agreed?

[moot]

The point is to have more physics to pilot the planes in, not more gadgets to buffer you from the plane and the physics.

[Anaxogoras]

Answer my question, please.

[bj229r]

It's not engine management, it's physics fidelity.  No player would need to do anything different from what they do today.

There ye go...I think you're saying we don't need real engine management, just have the thing cool off at a realistic rate

[Anaxogoras]

There ye go...I think you're saying we don't need real engine management, just have the thing cool off at a realistic rate

Which would put players who don't adjust to the change at a disadvantage.  I'm ok with that, are you?

[moot]

You're asking me the wrong question Anax.  The physics aren't behaving as they ought to, whether or not a fix would enable more management possibilities.  That's how I see it.  I don't think I care about instrumentation at all anymore.  And I'm willing to bet that there's enough to master in dogfighting (ACM, SA, etc) to trump any advantage gained in manually controlling everything.  As long as the physics are as good as they can be, I don't care about avionics stuff.

[Anaxogoras]

How is it the wrong question?  Effects on gameplay are legitimate considerations.

[moot]

It's the wrong question because you're looking for any excuse (not meant negatively) more management stuff and I'm looking at it the other way.  I'd have complete physics before we ever get to instrumental gadgets.

[Anaxogoras]

It's the wrong question because you're looking for any excuse (not meant negatively) more management stuff and I'm looking at it the other way.  I'd have complete physics before we ever get to instrumental gadgets.

Yes, I understand your viewpoint.  I'm also in favor of accurate physics.  I'm just concerned that you're contradicting yourself here compared to earlier opinions.

I can set this up like it's a beginning philosophy syllogism:

Universal:    Changes to engine modeling that have the pilot do something extra are bad.
Particular:   Widewing's proposal would have the pilot do something extra (or suffer a disadvantage).
Conclusion:  Therefore, Widewing's proposal is bad.

Now, I would deny the universal premise, that's my personal opinion.  You seem to be denying the particular premise, and that's what I don't get.

If you have changed your mind about the universal then we are in agreement.  For instance, if you think making physics more accurate, even though it would have the pilot do something extra, is not bad, then you can no longer believe in the universal premise.

[moot]

We're dancing on the head of a pin here... You're not doing anything extra.  The throttle is already functional.  No one would've noticed for a while if it'd been introduced without being mentionned.  It's a flaw in physics, not a new pilot control.  And you wouldn't necessarily suffer a disadvantage from staying at MIL when off WEP.

I'd add more physics regardless if it meant making the pilot do something extra; I'd (we're assuming I had a hand in the thing) do the same as AH is now: automate most of it so you could focus on the ACM.  I wouldn't add physics just so the pilot could have something extra to do.  Manual prop pitch and mixture etc's physics are already there.  You could add them if they were missing (the engine wouldn't run) but you wouldn't have to have manual control of it.  In fact I can't think of any new physics that'd require new controls. 

Sorry but I've been slogging thru a bunch of bio and math non stop and this is all making my brain swim.

edit -That's not supposed to sound rude.  I'm just saying I can't think straight.

[BnZs]

We're dancing on the head of a pin here... You're not doing anything extra.  The throttle is already functional.  No one would've noticed for a while if it'd been introduced without being mentionned.  It's a flaw in physics, not a new pilot control.  And you wouldn't necessarily suffer a disadvantage from staying at MIL when off WEP.

The consequences of adding this would be that your WEP would recharge faster than if you stayed at MIL. I also presume it might last longer if you started with a cooler engine to begin with. So yeah, players who didn't manage it to their advantage would suffer. And like I alluded to earlier, you would probably see some folks floating around the stratosphere at minimum throttle settings to enter the fray at high speed *and* with the coolest possible engine. But oh well, they'd be easy pray for someone tooling along at the same alt at military now wouldn't they? Inevitably more complexity is added to the game by this.

[Anaxogoras]

You're not doing anything extra.

Right now, when I want to cool my engine I just disengage WEP.  Widewing's proposal would have me turn off WEP, and also reduce throttle.  To me, that's doing something extra.  I don't know if we're ever going to see eye to eye on that point.  Oh well.

...you wouldn't necessarily suffer a disadvantage from staying at MIL when off WEP.

No, not necessarily, but frequently enough!

Sorry but I've been slogging thru a bunch of bio and math non stop and this is all making my brain swim.

edit -That's not supposed to sound rude.  I'm just saying I can't think straight.

No worries.