Just how effective is the IL2 without the 37mm...

[Fencer51]

Can a "standard" IL2 take out tanks ?

[Noir]

yes 9GIAP used to do it on a regular basis, T34/M4 are a pain in the **** tho.

[Lusche]

Can a "standard" IL2 take out tanks ?

Panzer easily, Sherman is more difficult. Tiger very difficult, T35 almost impossible.

[hammer]

Panzer easily, Sherman is more difficult. Tiger very difficult, T35 almost impossible.

In fact, it is impossible to take out a T35 with an IL2 in Aces High.  (Sorry, couldn't resist!  )

[usvi]

In fact, it is impossible to take out a T35 with an IL2 in Aces High.  (Sorry, couldn't resist!  )

[Anaxogoras]

I assume we're talking about strafing attacks, and excluding bombs and rockets.

My experience is that the 23mm requires good aim and an understanding of the weak points of the target.  If you're unskilled (like me) you have a good chance of disabling a tank, e.g. Panzer, but a low chance of destroying one outright.

With the 37mm, I can kill a Panzer firing at any point, just aim and hold down the trigger.

---------------

The 23mm Il-2 should have a greater ordnance capacity than the 37mm version.  The big gun pods reduced the number of hardpoints on the wings, but in AH they're the same.

[Rich46yo]

I'm going to start doing some experimenting.

The VYa-23mm cannon with AP is rated to punch thru 25mm steel armor at 400 meters. I have a thread/post around heres somewheres showing where that thin armor is on our game tanks.

The VYa had a ROF of 550 to 650 RPM compared to the NS-37s 400 RPMs. The 23mm cannon fired a 198 grn projectile 905 m/s and could punch thru 25mm plate at 400 meters. It had a ROF of 550 to 650 rpm.

The NS-37 shot a 760 grn AP shell at 880 fps and was rated to penetrate 50mm of armor at 200 meters. It had a ROF of 400 rpm.

OK? Want my advice? Set the convergence of your 23mm IL2 to 300, or even 250, "certainly no more then 400", and use the ROF as your biggest ally. Get in close and hose the weak sections of a tank from a high vertical angle, "best to almost be looking straight down".

In an IL2 that means leaving ords off and no more then 1/2 fuel. And even there you have to be careful you dont end up bug splat.

Heres a general reference of the weak areas of our tanks armor. The Panzer-4 has a very thin rear section of hull armor.

P-4

T-34

Sherman M4

Tiger


Hope I helped.

[Helm]

Panzer easily, Sherman is more difficult. Tiger very difficult, T35 almost impossible.

T-35 what a land yacht that thing is ....I'd like to see a drag race between a t-35 and a Matilda  

...and yes i know you meant T-34  



With the Il-2 guns (23mm) I have never killed any tank out right.  I have crippled a few and got a kill when they towered out.  But actually killing them ...NO

Helm ...out

[moot]

Rich you should color the weak parts highlight instead of just greying them over grey schematic.

[Rich46yo]

Rich you should color the weak parts highlight instead of just greying them over grey schematic.

Ya, I tried. For some reason PS wouldnt apply color to those particular schematics. So I did the next best thing. I just know general areas of armor weakness anyways and not detailed locations. At 250 mph, shooting 37mms, its target enough and good enough for Govt. work.

Well I upped an IL2 and went up against T-34s twice after posting the above. Both times I damaged them enough to get credit for the kill. Both times I was unable to finish them off, tho the first one I would have been able had there been no other friendlys attacking. The ROF feels very strange and the 23mm cannons feel like they are slung lower on the airframe. On the first T-34, I filmed it and will post when I get the time, I got good EOT coming down almost straight on it and shooting the rear hull top/engine.

If and when i go back to the 23mm, and I take back what I earlier said, Im going to set convergance to 400 and no closer. The 37mm guns have left me spoiled in that Im used to killing tanks very close and with very few rounds. With the VYa 23mms you have to use the extra ammo/higher ROF for good effect. So Im going to start shooting from farther out.

The 23mms are good all around weapons. They no doubt deserve a larger following then what they have now after the 37mm NS-37s have been introduced.

With the Il-2 guns (23mm) I have never killed any tank out right.  I have crippled a few and got a kill when they towered out.  But actually killing them ...NO

I could kill Panzers and Shermans all day long in them. I'd bet they are capable of killing any tank "outright".

[moot]

Image > Mode > RGB color.  Sounds like those pics are in indexed/grayscale mode.

[Spikes]

I like taking the 23mms for base defense. I can fight offf planes, and while ther's 10 other guys with the big guns, I can mop up M3's, airplanes, M16's, and light armor. Ost/Wirb/Panzers if needed.

[E25280]

With the Il-2 guns (23mm) I have never killed any tank out right.  I have crippled a few and got a kill when they towered out.  But actually killing them ...NO

Only tank I was never able to kill outright pre-37mm was the Tiger.  I think I killed a T-34 exactly once, and only because for some reason he decided not to start moving, giving me 3-4 passes.  Shermans were more challenging than Panzers, but both could be done in one pass (top down, of course).

I still regularly use the 23mm version when there are air cons about, and reserve the 37mm for pure GV assaults or where I have a reasonble expectation of local friendly air superiority.

[Lusche]

In fact, it is impossible to take out a T35 with an IL2 in Aces High.  (Sorry, couldn't resist!  )

Maybe one day... 

With the Il-2 guns (23mm) I have never killed any tank out right.

I killed hundreds of them, before I switched over to the Hurri IID as my main tank buster, because it could kill the Tiger & T-34 where the Il-2 could not.

But then came the Wirbel...

[Strip]

The VYa had a ROF of 550 to 650 RPM compared to the NS-37s 400 RPMs. The 23mm cannon fired a 198 grn projectile 905 m/s and could punch thru 25mm plate at 400 meters. It had a ROF of 550 to 650 rpm.

Rich46yo

Surely you mean grams, not grains, another common weight measure in small calibers.

If that isn't a typo you need to check your facts and resources, some .308 rounds are 200 grains!

Strip