Eric Hartmann was a HO'er...

[JunkyII]

You shouldnt even HO when getting ganged, that leads to bad habits.

[BlauK]

That being said, using it as an excuse for doing it in a cartoon game doesn't work either, as we don't risk dying.  We have nothing to lose by actually engaging in air combat.  No country will be destroyed, no civillians killed etc.

The second we only get one life and we're done playing AH afterwards forever, then you can use real life HO'ing as your justification.

As an excuse for ...what? Why should there be any excurse for flying HO and shooting in HO? ...an excuse for bombing targets? ...an excuse fro shooting the other plane from behind?

No justification is needed for anything that is just part of playing this game! There is nothing more stupid than sulking and whining about HO:s. That is what reveals a true dweeb.

[BlauK]

You shouldnt even HO when getting ganged, that leads to bad habits.

Yup Junky, and *******ation makes one blind, right?  

[palef]

I was talking about the "joke"

So quote just the joke then.

[JunkyII]

Yup Junky, and *******ation makes one blind, right?  

Rehabilation?  just my opinion on the matter where people say its alright to HO when getting ganged, the way I see it your either a HOer or you dont HO at all(im in the dont HO category)

[WMLute]

Maybe I have a slightly different take on the Head On that some.

Right off the bat yes it is valid and yes it is/was taught and in certain plane matchups encouraged.


But...  is it a good move in Aces High?

Lets think that through a bit.

The answer really depends on what you are tying to achieve when you are flying that sortie.

Is your goal to kill a certain plane at all costs?  (i.e. that pesky 262 you will never saddle or the player you KNOW you can't beat in a straight up fight) 
Is your goal to kill that plane about to shoot your goon/squaddie/teamate/friend etc, etc.
Is your goal to kill at least ONE of the 2,3,4,5+ bad guys that are swarming all over you and your are going to be dead soon anyway.

Any of the above are reasons I might take a HO shot on someone and I in fact have done 'em all.


But is it a GOOD move?

Outside of a select few circumstances no, not really.   It isn't a very good move in most situations for two reasons.

The first and most glaring problem I have with a Head On is that you are giving your opponent a free shot at you.  If I was given a 50/50 chance of living or dying I would consider that pretty cruddy odds.  If you factor in that you will probably take damage and the NEXT bad guy is gonna kill you I would put your survival at closer to 70-30 or 80-20.

I don't like doing maneuvers where 80% of the time it means that my death is imminent.  When I take off I plan on landing and rarely if ever will take off with the intent of NOT coming home.  Some players fight to the death no matter what or could care less if they land.  Some players are happy with one kill (if) each sortie.  I personally am not one of those players.  I am gonna make it home and preferably with a bunch o' kills.


The second thing to consider is if you miss the Head On you are now at a positional disadvantage.  If you opponent did a simple merge move as you were spraying away trying to face shoot you are now in trouble.  Not only did you not hit them but you are now starting the fight at a disadvantage.  Most of the time I am 1/2 way into my initial move as my HO'n opponent is letting off the trigger and I am well on my way to having them saddled and dispatched.  The HO'r starts the fight with their nme (if their opponent has a basic grasp on ACM and BFM) allready well on their way to killing them because of their choice in moves.

Think about that a bit.  Use your hands to simulate a merge.  Have one hand fly straight and level (the ho'r) and have the second hand do a simple break turn right before the merge.  Look at where they are right after the merge.  The non Ho'r has a HUGE positional advantage.  (ok, not the best example but it gives you an idea of what I'm talking about)

Now the KEY here is to learn what works and what doesn't vs. the HO'r.  Remember that they are going for a shot.  Use that against them.  You KNOW where their plane is going to be.  You can even dictate which way they are going to break (when they realize they missed) by how you approach them.  If my opponent is flying a plane that turns better to the left it is in my best interest to make their NEXT move after the HO attempt to be a right hand turn.  So I setup my merge so I am on their right and are pulling slightly to the right to get the shot.  After they fly past and have missed they will then pull as hard as they can in Lead Pursuit to try and get their nose around on me.  They are all ready in a right hand turn so they generally will go into a hard right hand turn.  (won't always work, but usually does)  So I not only know where their plane is going to be before and during the merge, I also have a pretty durn good idea what their next move will be.  (neat!)

The HO then extend pilot takes a bit more time.  Generally after totally missing you for the 3rd of 4th time they will TRY a move.  That is when ya' kill 'em but you need to be looking for it.  Don't be lulled by their extending the last 3 or 4 times.  They WILL eventually try a maneuver (it is super rare that they do no) and you just have to be ready for it.

With some practice you will have them saddled and dead within one or two moves.


You will often see me say that I love opponents that try to HO me.  The above is why.  Once you get the timing down head on attacks by the nme are pretty easy to manipulate to your advantage.  Giving them what they THINK is a shot and timing is key but it really isn't hard to learn and a typical night of flying gives you dozens if not hundreds of opportunities to practice.


So is a Head on Attack a good move in Aces High?

Not for me no, but I plan on landing.

[JunkyII]

Maybe I have a slightly different take on the Head On that some.

Right off the bat yes it is valid and yes it is/was taught and in certain plane matchups encouraged.


But...  is it a good move in Aces High?

Lets think that through a bit.

The answer really depends on what you are tying to achieve when you are flying that sortie.

Is your goal to kill a certain plane at all costs?  (i.e. that pesky 262 you will never saddle or the player you KNOW you can't beat in a straight up fight) 
Is your goal to kill that plane about to shoot your goon/squaddie/teamate/friend etc, etc.
Is your goal to kill at least ONE of the 2,3,4,5+ bad guys that are swarming all over you and your are going to be dead soon anyway.

Any of the above are reasons I might take a HO shot on someone and I in fact have done 'em all.


But is it a GOOD move?

Outside of a select few circumstances no, not really it isn't a very good move in most situations for two reasons.

The first and most glaring problem I have with a Head On is that you are giving your opponent a free shot at you.  If I was given a 50/50 chance of living or dying I would consider that pretty cruddy odds.  If you factor in that you will probably take damage and the NEXT bad guy is gonna kill you I would put your survival at closer to 70-30 or 80-20.

I don't like doing maneuvers where 80% of the time it means that my death is imminent.  When I take off I plan on landing and rarely if ever will take off with the intent of NOT coming home.  Some players fight to the death no matter what or could care less if they make it home.  Some players are happy with one kill (if) each sortie.  I personally am not one of those players.  I am gonna make it home and preferably with a bunch o' kills.


The second thing to consider is if you miss the Head On you are now at a positional disadvantage.  If you opponent did a simple merge move as you were spraying away trying to face shoot you are now in trouble.  Not only did you not hit them but you are now starting the fight at a disadvantage.  Most of the time I am 1/2 way into my initial move as my HO'n opponent is letting off the trigger and I am well on my way to having them saddled and dispatched.  The HO'r starts the fight with their nme (if their opponent has a basic grasp on ACM and BFM) allready well on their way to killing them because of their choice in moves.

Think about that a bit.  Use your hands to simulate a merge.  Have one hand fly straight and level (the ho'r) and have the second hand do a simple break turn right before the merge.  Look at where they are right after the merge.  The non Ho'r has a HUGE positional advantage.  (ok, not the best example but it gives you an idea of what I'm talking about)

Now the KEY here is to learn what works and what doesn't vs. the HO'r.  Remember that they are going for a shot.  Use that against them.  You KNOW where their plane is going to be.  You can even dictate which way they are going to break (when they realize they missed) by how you approach them.  If my opponent is flying a plane that turns better to the left it is in my best interest to make their NEXT move after the HO attempt to be a right hand turn.  So I setup my merge so I am on their right and are pulling slightly to the right to get the shot.  After they fly past and have missed they will then pull as hard as they can in Lead Pursuit to try and get their nose around on me.  They are all ready in a right hand turn so they generally will go into a hard right hand turn.  (won't always work, but usually does)  So I not only know where their plane is going to be before and during the merge, I also have a pretty durn good idea what their next move will be.  (neat!)

The HO then extend pilot takes a bit more time.  Generally after totally missing you for the 3rd of 4th time they will TRY a move.  That is when ya' kill 'em but you need to be looking for it.  Don't be lulled by their extending the last 3 or 4 times.  They WILL eventually try a maneuver (it is super rare that they do no) and you just have to be ready for it.

With some practice you will have them saddled and dead within one or two moves.


You will often see me say that I love opponents that try to HO me.  The above is why.  Once you get the timing down head on attacks by the nme are pretty easy to manipulate to your advantage.  Giving them what they THINK is a shot and timing is key but it really isn't hard to learn and a typical night of flying gives you dozens if not hundreds of opportunities to practice.


So is a Head on Attack a good move in Aces High?

Not for me no, but I plan on landing.

very well put

[052088]

We all recognize that fact that head-on shot is a part of actual air combat tactics.  However, within AH, many of us under a 1v1 scenario would prefer a merge, leading to a break turn, and then engaging into competitive ACM.  Perhaps one way of eliminating the ambiguity at the point of merge is to show a wing rock approaching the merge to signal your intent of entering a turning fight, versus a head-on kill.  No wing rock, then fire head-on at your discretion.  What do you folks think???

DAGO  

[R 105]

It is not a HO it is the John Wayne merge face to face guns blazing. sounds fair to me.

[The Fugitive]

As an excuse for ...what? Why should there be any excurse for flying HO and shooting in HO? ...an excuse for bombing targets? ...an excuse fro shooting the other plane from behind?

No justification is needed for anything that is just part of playing this game! There is nothing more stupid than sulking and whining about HO:s. That is what reveals a true dweeb.

The way I look at it,

Real life was "Kill the enemy" sometimes at all costs.

In the game, there is no kill the enemy, because no one dies. In the game its suppose to be about the "combat" and a ho/joust isn't combat, it's just a waste of time and electronic pixels.

[Blooz]

When the situation comes along that I can send you to the tower faster by shooting you in the face rather than shooting you in the butt, I'm going to shoot you in the face.

If you choose not to shoot back in defense due to some self imposed, chivaly inspired, straight jacketed, silly rule then that's all the better for me and my team.

Take the shot. It may be the only one you get.

[BlauK]

In the game its suppose to be about the "combat" and a ho/joust isn't combat, it's just a waste of time and electronic pixels.

Where is it stated that AH is about "combat", by which you possibly mean knights of air in a honorable WWI-style duels?

AFAIK, AH is a game which can be played with various styles, from aerial quake to strategy generals. My point is that it is stupid to whine about HO. It just sometimes happens, and in some occasions it may be a good choice, most often it is a bad and fatal choice, still it is a choice made by a player and if one "dies" because of it, so what. Take a new plane.

I myself HO vary seldom, but when I do, I do it because I see it a good option in that situation, quite like WMLute described above. If the opponent has all the card and still fails to avoid my desperate move, it is his fault. He makes himself a bigger fool if he then starts whining about it

I also like to land my kills, but I accept that I play in a chaotic environment. So there is no point to whine about what other people do.

[AWwrgwy]

The situation I fail to grasp is when your opponent has an E and alt advantage on you but still insists on screaming down and trying to shoot you in the face.

Seems silly and lazy to me.


wrongway

[A8HatTrick]

  Just using the pointy stick to stir some natives... 

Excerpt from the last interview with Lufwaffe ace pilot Eric Hartmann:


Someone here said it was never done in real life...maybe Hartmann lied.

Ok, perhaps your boored, or perhaps your favorite tactic is to HO with a cannon bird, and often times get criticized about it on 200.

Here are some suggestions.

1. Tune out 200, once you are over the age of 13, it fails to have a purpose.
2. Learn that a Head On Pass and what AH refers to as an "HO" are different things by definition
3. Learn that everyone interprets the definition differently
4. Understand the only people who complain about HO's are the ones in flames

If you go Nose on Nose, your a tard.  If you go 12 to 12 with 50 feet lateral clearance off the wing tips, and use rudder to pull a shot, you are doing a "REAL LIFE HEAD ON PASS".

If you are hoping that 50 feet of vertical clearance while you are still nose to nose is going to work out... your high. 

Tards and adrenaline will always force a shot.

The best have lobbed their effort at 1K and are already pulling off, the rest force it.

Always break RIGHT.  And the man with Altitude pulls up, the low guy stays level or Neg G Dives.

Rules to live by.

[Timofei]

..using it as an excuse for doing it in a cartoon game..

As you smartly noticed, this is a game. No excuse is needed whatever you do.