Chuck Yeager was a HOer

[BlauK]

I still dont get it why HO is ok if one risks his real life (as per Guppy), but not when risking his virtual life 
That could be elaborated as playing this game is lame because we do not risk our real lives in any fight...

This whole HO and HOer business has been developed into something lame or derogatory by sore losers who have not been able to counter the easiest and most simple move... "no move at all, but just going straight at the enemy".

There is nothing wrong with HO. One risks his plane, his kills and all his virtual life in a virtual game. Let him, and stop whining. Learn to counter maneuver him... or remain a whining dweeb

[gyrene81]

I still dont get it why HO is ok if one risks his real life (as per Guppy), but not when risking his virtual life 
That could be elaborated as playing this game is lame because we do not risk our real lives in any fight...

This whole HO and HOer business has been developed into something lame or derogatory by sore losers who have not been able to counter the easiest and most simple move... "no move at all, but just going straight at the enemy".

There is nothing wrong with HO. One risks his plane, his kills and all his virtual life in a virtual game. Let him, and stop whining. Learn to counter maneuver him... or remain a whining dweeb

+10

I will support Junky's sentiments of not HO ing in a straight up 1 vs 1.  How on earth do you expect to learn any sort of ACM by pulling for the shot in the face???

Dogfighting is like making love to a beautiful woman.  You have to seduce them in and then show your prowess by getting around on them.  Pulling straight for the smash and grab isn't going to impress!!     

In the words of Carl Childers...mmmmm hhmmm...

Riiiight...no offense but the "ACM" being talked about by all the "aces"...isn't ACM...it's toon pile-it higher and deeper b.s. toon maneuvers.

[Yeager]

probably only way you can get kill...............

Regardless, I would not care if what you said were true.  My guess is that I die in a HO once out of every 25 deaths.  I try to avoid them usually but tend to prevail when left no other option.  Rarely do I go for the ram but sometimes when the door bell rings or the cell phone buzzes and the timing is right I will ace pilot like there is no tomorrow.

[BnZs]

I still dont get it why HO is ok if one risks his real life (as per Guppy), but not when risking his virtual life  
That could be elaborated as playing this game is lame because we do not risk our real lives in any fight...

This whole HO and HOer business has been developed into something lame or derogatory by sore losers who have not been able to counter the easiest and most simple move... "no move at all, but just going straight at the enemy".

This is why:

Further firing at the merge or before DOES WORK. It is not only possible but quite easy to fire on the merge and still make a lead turn...still make a tactical move giving you the advantage.

The idea that firing on the merge makes you loose advantage is not true!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If anyone doubts this I will be glad to show you in the DA how this works.

Even if you have huge smash with no intention of turning you can still Head on fire, blow through, climb above and do it again with impunity. The pilot who dodges the HO will be at a disadvantage.

If you take two relatively equal pilots and they both fire on the merge during their merge pass or thereafter on each merge pass they will both be hit and both will crash 9 out of 10 times. OR one will miss and one will hit damaging the others plane with oil, radiator, pilot wound or collision. The round is over at that point.

So we continue to do this over and over and over...in the end neither pilot has any fun...it now becomes a "dualist" or "jousting" contest...nothing more...there is no "maneuvering combat"...only head on guns blazing.

There are two schools of thought in AH2 about this.
#1 -  its a valid thing to do....typically "I had guns and you didn't..you died..I lived..end of story"

#2 - it's a sign of total newbness, lame and skilless game play. A sign of a player who cares nothing about combat maneuver and counter maneuver. A player who considers ANY kind of kill no matter how it is achieved a good kill.

Although a head on firing pass can be made without loosing positional advantage that does not mean that it should be done.

Can you imagine if every player in AH2 made it a point to head on fire on every pass....what a joke this game would be.

People are being dense and repeating myths about the HO. The HO *can* be attempted on a normal merge without loss of advantage. The HOers who loose advantage are the ones who fire on the merge and are "stuck" on their firing attempt and don't immediately reverse...but allowing the mind to get "stuck" on ANY individual action in a duel can be lethal. If you look at DA fights between good sticks, on the merge and subsequent remerges, usually either party could HO if so desired. Are you telling me some of the best sticks in the game doon't know how to "avoid the simplest move"? Truth is that that there is always some sort of a possible gun solution on a merge. If one tries to fly extra, extra wide of the other plane of the merge to avoid a HO, that gives up a bite of angles right there. The HOer always stands a reasonable advantage of scoring hits, depending on his gunnery level (and believe me, some people are getting good at it. just go to the DA lake sometime.) There are some situations (on the deck, low energy merge) where there is virtually *no* way to avoid a decent shot who wants to got he HO M.A.D. route.

[SlapShot]

intresting part is, HE didnt complains about it, because HE know it was war, and at war there is no poor gameplay, its alive or dead!

It WAS war ... it WASN'T a game ... there is no "game play" in war ... so trying to draw similarities between the two is absurd.

The only reason people complain about the HO in this game is ... why ? ... why go for the 1 shot single merge fight ? What is to be gained by it when the guy you just killed with an HO will be up in the air again in a matter of seconds ? This is a game and it's intent is to be challenging ... where is the challenge in a HO shot ? ... simply put ... there is none.

I very very rarely get shot down by a HO ... I too now how to avoid them, but every time I dodge one, I have to shake my head and ask the question "why ?" ... why would they bypass the opportunity to acutally "fight" and learn something ... challenge themselves and me ... they just robbed me and themselves the opportunity to probably have a "fight" that they could remembered for a long time ... win or lose. It's a waste of my time and his.

Every single "top gun" stick in this game, past and present, did not get that good by running around trying to HO everything and anything in it's path. They took the time to get killed 1000s of times to learn how to actually fight.

Chuck didn't complain simply due to the fact ... who the fug would listen to him and who would he complain to ? ... secondly, he could probably appreciate the reason why he got HOed ... had he not been shot down, Chuck would have possibly KILLED that guy and that guy would never have a chance to re-up a new plane and try his luck all over again ... so the guy took whatever shot he had because his LIFE WAS IN DANGER. We never ever face DANGER in this game ... HUGE DIFFERENCE. We can kill each other 100s of times in a night and we WILL suffer no adverse effects and wake up the next morning and be good to go again.

War is a "for real" kill or be killed situation ... it's not game and those who try to draw parallels between what REAL WWII pilots did in combat to what we do in this game ... as someone else said ... is nothing but an disservice to the WWI pilots.

Again ... personally, I don't complain about HOs, but I always ask myself  "why ?" ... and then summarily kill 99.9% of them within 1 turn ... if they decide to stick around.

[BlauK]

If you look at DA fights between good sticks, on the merge and subsequent remerges, usually either party could HO if so desired. Are you telling me some of the best sticks in the game doon't know how to "avoid the simplest move"? Truth is that that there is always some sort of a possible gun solution on a merge. .......... The HOer always stands a reasonable advantage of scoring hits, depending on his gunnery level (and believe me, some people are getting good at it. just go to the DA lake sometime.) There are some situations (on the deck, low energy merge) where there is virtually *no* way to avoid a decent shot who wants to got he HO M.A.D. route.

First of all, a DA duel with an agreed cold merge is a completely different game. MA is not for duels, so there is no reason to expect cold merges. I have been to DA lake once in a while and I have no trouble avoiding HOs either there or at MA. I join a HO if I CHOOSE to do so, I never "GET HOed", and I am not any of those best sticks either. Furthermore, DA carries no special meaning or respect in my book. To me it is an easy mode arena where people can use external views. i find the best fights at other arenas where situations and balances fluctuate, advantages turn into disadvantages and SA means something. Fixating to just one target in otherwise safe environment just to yank and bank is not for me

[Shuffler]

HOers just assume they will be outflown before even entering a fight. Since they HO they'll never challenge their ability and improve. To improve you actually have to fight.

[BnZs]

First of all, a DA duel with an agreed cold merge is a completely different game. MA is not for duels, so there is no reason to expect cold merges. I have been to DA lake once in a while and I have no trouble avoiding HOs either there or at MA. I join a HO if I CHOOSE to do so, I never "GET HOed", and I am not any of those best sticks either. Furthermore, DA carries no special meaning or respect in my book. To me it is an easy mode arena where people can use external views. i find the best fights at other arenas where situations and balances fluctuate, advantages turn into disadvantages and SA means something. Fixating to just one target in otherwise safe environment just to yank and bank is not for me

Why do they agree upon a cold merge?

Because merging in the most effective manner means a HO shot will be very possible.

Again, if you try to fly so wide of the opponent on the merge that a HO is simply impossible, you give him a big bite of angles and/or a snapshot opportunity right at the start.

Again, post-merge, both planes having similar turn performance and competent pilots flying to the limit, opportunities for mutual shooting will often arise again for several re-merges, if either party desired. Trying to "duck" these shots as the E bleeds down will often not work, only offering up more planform for the opposition to shoot at, and the shooter will not really loose any positional advantage, once again assuming he does not mentally "stick" on the shot.

Why do people say "Hoing puts you at an immediate disadvantage?" Two reasons. First of all, if you have some airspace under you, you will typically attempt to get under the opponent on the merge. An opponent who does not attempt to get under or on your same level and *then* attempts some sort of nose down FQ shot on the merge he will typically miss and wind up diving below you while you reverse, leading to an initial disadvantage. And unskilled HO-ers typically are late on reversing their turn post merge.

BUT, there is absolutely nothing to keep someone who *does* put themselves on your level attempting a true HO shot with some probability of success AND immediately reversing with no loss of advantage...nothing except their sense of fair play that is.

[Charge]

"Chuck didn't HO, he got Ho'd and I bet if you asked him if he preferred the German guy hadn't fired, he'd answer "YES!""

Yeah, sure....

http://www.airportjournals.com/Display.cfm?varID=0311003

http://www.generalchuckyeager.com/yeageradventure/fullstory/YeagerCombatStory.htm

-C+

[CAP1]

HOers just assume they will be outflown before even entering a fight. Since they HO they'll never challenge their ability and improve. To improve you actually have to fight.

or, they are a very very good pile-it, and when they see themselves starting to lose a fight, they cannot bear the thought of the loss of their cartoon airplane......so they line one up...............seen it a lot...........

[Boozeman]

From time to time, a good HO is quite enjoyable.

[Mar]

I do not understand the point to all this bickering. All that needs to be said was said by Agent360 on September 16, 2009, 09:28:19 PM.

[boomerlu]

Furthermore, DA carries no special meaning or respect in my book. To me it is an easy mode arena where people can use external views. i find the best fights at other arenas where situations and balances fluctuate, advantages turn into disadvantages and SA means something. Fixating to just one target in otherwise safe environment just to yank and bank is not for me

I see your side of the argument on everything here except this:
Why would you label DA as "easy mode" simply because there are external views? Are the physics different? Do we play a drastically different game? Do you even know if most people there actually use external views (I fly there and I have no idea what people use, I personally keep it all in the cockpit).

You might be also referring to free perk rides - but there are "easy mode planes" in the MAs as well. It's all relative and to boot not everybody flies a Tempest or Spit14 or F4U4 or a F4U1c although a lot of people certainly do. If anything, it makes it LESS easy mode for those of us who mostly fly the normal rides.

Anyways, just nitpicking one point.

[BlauK]

My point on "easy mode" was simply about making the fight and SA much easier with external views. Also there is no possibility to know whether your opponent is using it or not. Maneuvering the plane is not easier, but fighting is. Without externals one has to move his plane to see the opponent in blind angles and that may easily bleed energy and affect next maneuvers. Just my view of externals... at TA they are fine, but I do not understand why they are enabled at DA. 

[TnDep]

You can rest assured he did not intend to come head  on into those canons. He was maneuvering. Doen not mean he was flying 1000 yards straight at the 190.

I still think folks miss the idea of no HOs in the game. You cheat yourself by not actually fighting. When you actually fight you can improve.

We would have alot more great fights if people would do this.