Chuck Yeager was a HOer

[BnZs]

I read some of this thread. Couldn't bear to read all of it.....same ole crap.

Eric Hartman did not think the Head On shot was a good thing to do. He did not value it as a tactic at all. It is not at "tactic". It is a desperate move when you have no other options.

Dicta Boelcke did not think head on attacks were valuable either...read his rules how you want but there is nothing there suggesting head on was a tactic.

Further firing at the merge or before DOES WORK. It is not only possible but quite easy to fire on the merge and still make a lead turn...still make a tactical move giving you the advantage.

The idea that firing on the merge makes you loose advantage is not true!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If anyone doubts this I will be glad to show you in the DA how this works.

Even if you have huge smash with no intention of turning you can still Head on fire, blow through, climb above and do it again with impunity. The pilot who dodges the HO will be at a disadvantage.

If you take two relatively equal pilots and they both fire on the merge during their merge pass or thereafter on each merge pass they will both be hit and both will crash 9 out of 10 times. OR one will miss and one will hit damaging the others plane with oil, radiator, pilot wound or collision. The round is over at that point.

So we continue to do this over and over and over...in the end neither pilot has any fun...it now becomes a "dualist" or "jousting" contest...nothing more...there is no "maneuvering combat"...only head on guns blazing.

There are two schools of thought in AH2 about this.
#1 -  its a valid thing to do....typically "I had guns and you didn't..you died..I lived..end of story"

#2 - it's a sign of total newbness, lame and skilless game play. A sign of a player who cares nothing about combat maneuver and counter maneuver. A player who considers ANY kind of kill no matter how it is achieved a good kill.

Although a head on firing pass can be made without loosing positional advantage that does not mean that it should be done.

Can you imagine if every player in AH2 made it a point to head on fire on every pass....what a joke this game would be.

Just for the record, I think Ho shots are lame in the context of fighting 1v1 in any arena. There are times like cherry picking vulcher who I will ho at the first opportunity and others that have been listed.

But as a general rule, the HO is something that shows poor game play, no respect for your enemy, and generally results in your status being referred to in very nasty terms. Hoing gets you nothing but contempt by your piers and colleges. It gains you absolutely nothing.

Agent's post post should be stickied at the top of the @%^#%$$!~ forums.

[gyrene81]

I don't belive English is dhryan's first language...he does pretty good IMO.

No excuse for being a dweeb.


HO = Head On  - meaning 2 objects forward facing and approaching each other in a manner that may or may not end in a face to face collision depending on dynamic variables that would change the path of travel at any point.

Has nothing to do with 2 objects screaming toward each other at high speed nose to nose blazing away with weapons...which is the wannabe something special definition of "I'm an uber toon ace pile-it and that is a dweeb thing to do".

[dhyran]

Well mr intellectual...reading comprehension not your strong suit?...it says he GOT HIT HEAD ON, nothing about he was flying straight at an enemy blazing away...so by your intelligent definition, Yeager was not a HO'er and therefore you OP stating he was a HO'er is dead wrong.

Go figure.



You should have stayed awake in school.

well, my school out was in 1983 to be precise and iam not a native speaker btw. I understand the "GOT HIT HEAD ON", but you just belive the bullets came from somewhere else and not HO. How can you be sure about?

most impressive is Chuck Yeager didnt complain about what happend. As i pointed out above, you can avoid it in AH very easy, but in RL it happends.

[Tec]

See Rule #4

[dhyran]

No excuse for being a dweeb.


HO = Head On  - meaning 2 objects forward facing and approaching each other in a manner that may or may not end in a face to face collision depending on dynamic variables that would change the path of travel at any point.

...

well, dweeb or not, maybe i am a dweeb, but i can discuss things without getting rude. anyway, simply accept the fact that people fly a HO. Deal with it, if you cant, maybe we have to rethink about the dweeb. Which doesn't mean i fly HO. I dont like HO, i don't like LA7 pilots, searching around for the next HO. But i accept that people are doing and enjoying different things. I am not complaining about if such a guys will kill me HO. because its on me to avoid it. I am an high alt monkey. so what?

back to topic, in RL Head on was a valid way to attack! Do you know schräge Musik?

or

Major Robert S. Johnson
56th Fighter Group

But on May 14th, he received his baptism of fire, a "ramrod" (bomber escort) over Antwerp, which the Germans usually defended. Three 16-plane squadrons of the 56th went up that day, to help shepherd a force of about thirty B-17s. As they flew over the Dutch coast, heavy flak opened up, ripping into the bombers flying at lower altitude. Hub Zemke, leading the flight, plunged after some bandits, with Johnson and the other two members of the flight "glued to his tail." Eight more German planes came after Zemke's flight, and the four Thunderbolts turned to meet them head on. The antagonists flashed by each other, firing, and Johnson's guns stuck in the 'ON' position despite his repeated flicking of the arming switch. As he hammered on the trigger and switches, trying to shut off his guns, two Focke-Wulfs passed through his bullet stream and were damaged. When Johnson finally got his guns off, he was alone. He had been constantly warned against this exact predicament, a novice pilot alone and at low altitude to boot.

Looking for friendly aircraft, he spotted eight blunt-nosed fighters and sped towards them, in hopes of joining up. His recognition skills needed work, because they were FW-190s. he firewalled the throttle and headed the other way. Keeping maximum speed all the way across the Channel, he gratefully landed, only to have Hub Zemke chew him out for undisciplined flying. It hadn't been Johnson's intention, but this mission began his reputation in the Group as a 'wild flier.'

these are real life stories, i pointed on, has nothing to do with AH2. once more, i avoid HO in AH, you can if you like to, but in RL it was a valid attack method, sometimes!
Just accept the fact guys

[CAP1]

so one gets hoed, the other not, please explain it! physicly not possible, a HO mean BOTH have the ability to shoot........
most important thing, he was not complaining about it like we have to read it here each Day

correct.....and the one that fires is the ho'er.

that was real war.......had a lot to lose.

in here is a game...or a sim...whatever ya wanna call it. only thing ya stand to lose is your cartoon airplane......and the pride of being # XX in your arena, if that's your thing.

 

[CAP1]

where he says that? he was talking about a HO, if he hadn't a Chance to shoot, it was NOT a HO!

the definition of a HO is: both run head to head into each other, BOTH have a shooting solution!

hhmm........

so the lady in the saturn that hit my mustang head on, didn't really hit me head on? she came from my 11 oclock. if we were shooting, i'd have had no guns solution, yet the nose of my car met the nose of her car. head on. ho.

 you don't necessarily have to have a solution for the other guy o ho ya. that's an excuse used by those that choose to ho all the time.

 and yes, i do sometimes. when i'm outnumbered. when i'm pile-it wounded. when you keep on tryin to ho me.

 i ho'd a run90 last week.....his first 2 passes he tried and missed, but i couldn't get 'round fast enough to saddle up. so on his third pass, i let loose. he lost to a p38 in a ho. 

 i really can't believe there's so many ho threads suddenly popping up. 

[CAP1]

Now put yourself in Yeager's boots.....

You roll from that one into another.. you roll from that one into another..... that one shoots before you can roll.... Did you HO?

heheheh.....

when i was still in the hired guns...when they first went to bish.....they were pissed that i stayed knight, flying with the playmates........had 4 or 5 of em on me in my zeek. every single one of em tried ho'ing me. i smoked the run90, as i avoided him........think i tagged the hurri.......maybe one of the f6's.........and the other one got me finally after a few minutes of that stuff. cooincendintally, it wasn't a ho pass that got me. 

[OOZ662]

This is a debate about the definition of a HO. It all condenses down to the average logic saying a HO is anything involving the front part of two planes while the gamer logic saying that it's cheap to shoot when you're both able to.

[CAP1]

well, my school out was in 1983 to be precise and iam not a native speaker btw. I understand the "GOT HIT HEAD ON", but you just belive the bullets came from somewhere else and not HO. How can you be sure about?

most impressive is Chuck Yeager didnt complain about what happend. As i pointed out above, you can avoid it in AH very easy, but in RL it happends.

OF COURSE HE DIDN'T COMPLAIN!!

 he was putting his LIFE on the line. he was more than likely thanking god that he survived.

[gyrene81]

well, my school out was in 1983 to be precise and iam not a native speaker btw. I understand the "GOT HIT HEAD ON", but you just belive the bullets came from somewhere else and not HO. How can you be sure about?

Now I know you missed the entire point of "reading comprehension".

I'll try and dummy it down for you. In Yeagers tale, he found himself in a position where he was moving toward an enemy plane that was moving toward him, in a head on manner...that does not mean that he and the enemy plane were exactly level with each other traveling the same horizontal line to the point of collision...the fact that he used the words "hit head on" means that the enemy plane could have been traveling toward him at either the "dead 12 o'clock", "high or low 12 o'clock", "high or low 1 o'clock" or "high or low 11 o'clock"...all of which would be considered HEAD ON...the fact that the enemy plane had a firing solution and hit the front of Yeager's plane shows that the enemy plane was facing Yeager and was traveling toward him at least long enough to get a shot at him.

[dhyran]

....
the fact that he used the words "hit head on" means that the enemy plane could have been traveling toward him at either the "dead 12 o'clock", "high or low 12 o'clock", "high or low 1 o'clock" or "high or low 11 o'clock"...all of which would be considered HEAD ON...the fact that the enemy plane had a firing solution and hit the front of Yeager's plane shows that the enemy plane was facing Yeager and was traveling toward him at least long enough to get a shot at him.

in that case its a deflection shot from above! anyway, i think i explains my motivation enough, i am out of the discussion

[CAP1]

in that case its a deflection shot from above! anyway, i think i explains my motivation enough, i am out of the discussion

not really....because had neither aircraft changed direction, they'd have met nose to nose.

[boomerlu]

not really....because had neither aircraft changed direction, they'd have met nose to nose.

How can you say that unless you were actually there, or at the very least knew the angles involved?

If you do a front quarter deflection shot properly, the other guy should fly PAST you. Only if you do it wrong will you collide, in which case you never had a guns solution in the first place. If you fly in front of HIM, then you also did it wrong. Once again you never had a guns solution, while giving him one.

Just think about the geometry - the intention in a deflection shot is for your opponent to fly through your bullet stream. The stream moves much faster than you do but points in the same direction. So if you have it set up right, he will fly through your bullet stream before you could possibly collide. You will then be flying through where he was 1-2 seconds ago when your flight paths finally intersect - all without any change in direction on either of your parts.

[Masherbrum]

just read here:

Chuck Yeager: I was in a dog-fight with three 190s, and I got hit head-on with a 20 mm cannon, and the prop came off the airplane, part of the wing, the canopy, and it caught on fire. So me and the airplane parted company. That's the way it happens. You bail out, you free fall in your parachute, and then when you get down to within three or four thousand feet of the ground, you pull the ripcord, the parachute pops and you land. That's about the way it happens. I picked up a few wounds. I had a couple slugs in one of my legs. I had some 20 mm fragments in my hands and a couple cuts on my head, but they were minor. So it didn't make much difference. ............

http://www.achievement.org/autodoc/page/yea0int-4

i say, in RL 1 vs 3 a HO happend, now ask yourself: is he a bad pilot?

intresting part is, HE didnt complains about it, because HE know it was war, and at war there is no poor gameplay, its alive or dead!

You and the rest who start these types of threads are pissing on the Honor with which they fought in WWII.   Grow up and knock it off, because it ISN'T funny.