Zoom climb tests.

[fscott]

Still battling with which aircraft has the best zoom climb, a most important manuever in a pilot's arsenal. So I did a zoom climb test. I have always thought that the P47 had the best zoom climb but not from 400mph it seems.

I started at 400mph at 1k feet with 75% fuel load and full ammo load on each aircraft. With the 109g10 it also had the 30mm instead of 20mm. I then pulled up as quickly as possible and put them into a straight up zoom climb. I kept it steady pointing the nose directly att he sun until each aircraft lost speed and began to stall. I did the test several times on each aircraft.

P51D - 6500ft
P47d - 6300ft
F41d - 6500ft
109g10 - 7200ft

To me this is disconcerting as everyone is complaining as to how these american aircraft retain so much energy. More disconcerting si the P47d's performance.  Historically I though the P47d was a rocket in the zoom climb. I do understand that perhaps it would perform the best at maybe 20,000ft in a zoom climb, and perhaps 400mph is not it's optimum zoom climb speed. However, I feel 400mph at 1k is a good test of what really happens in the arena, so this is where it is most applicable. Perhaps Pyro could expound on these results. Does the P47d need fixed? And why does the 109g10 retain so much energy?

fscott

[funked]

Thrust/weight ratio

[juzz]

Isn't a "zoom climb" in WW2 references actually like about 45º climb angle, not 90º?

[fscott]

Yes but it should not make any difference in comparisons of zoom climb capability in each aircraft. I suspect a 109g10 would still elad the pack in 45 degrees.

fscott

[hitech]

Fscott, retry the test with a 2 g pull up.

HiTech

[Lephturn]

Rgr that HT... if you pull up hard you are burning E in the pull.  A Jug driver will necesarily ease the beast into zoom at 2-3 G's to avoid burning E in the pull.  If I pull over 3 G's when E fighting in the Jug I am dead meat really quick.  The jug burns huge piles of E in a hard pull.

If you use a 2 G pull for all the planes it will be very interesting to see the difference.

BTW, kudos for testing fscott.  Info is good, whining is bad.  You are one of the few that actually took the time to run tests.  I hope more folks will follow your example in the future.  <S!>

------------------
Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs  http://www.flyingpigs.com


"My P-47 is a pretty good ship, she took a round coming 'cross the Channel last trip.
Just thinking 'bout my baby and lettin' her rip, always got me through so far."
 - Steve Earl

[Jigster]

P-38 should of been included, given the other four.

just sayin

btw was that the P-47 in the overload condition?

- Jig


[This message has been edited by Jigster (edited 11-27-2000).]

[flakbait]

Little trick I learned not too long ago; never pull over 2Gs. No matter the aircraft, if you want to zoom REALLY high, pull no more than 2Gs. $5 says I'll wipe every aircraft off that list using only a Yak, 2Gs, and 400mph at 10k. Pull the aircraft into a 15º climb until speed decays below 300, then increase climb angle to 30º or higher. Once your speed hits 240 you can yank it over the top. In the Yak, Bf-109 and FW-190 this works. I've done it and gained kills using this method.

I'd go with what HT said; pull no more than 2Gs and leave it at 45º climb.


------------------------
Flakbait
Delta 6's Flight School
"I wanted to go back for another 50 missions, but they ruled it out
because I had a case of malaria that kept recurring. So I had to stay in the
States and teach combat flying. I was shot down by a mosquito! "
Frank Hurlbut, P-38 pilot
 

[Jekyll]

Golly-gee flakbait!

Stop giving away all my best secrets!  

------------------
C.O. Phoenix Squadron
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/phoenix
Aces High Training Corps

[StSanta]

BAH, real men go for 90 degree climbs and hammerheads.

Runners use wussy 45 degree max "zoom climb".

It's not worth being called a zoom clie a "little faster than usual clumb".

And where's the 190A8 eh?  

------------------
StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
while(!bishRookQueue.isEmpty() && loggedOn()){
30mmDeathDIEDIEDIE(bishRookQueue.removeFront());
System.out.println("LW pilots are superior");
myPlane.performVictoryRoll();
}

[fscott]

Agree. 90 degrees are for real men.  

Pardon me, but if the AH Fw190 represents the real thing, I have no idea how Germany was ever able to put up a decent fight. Thank God for the 109....


fscott

[Westy]

  Is it possibly that the FW is not being used like it was in WWII? Is it possible that online players are not the same as real WWII pilots?

 In WWII the Allies lost a sh&t load of airmen who did not make it back on these missions due to the FW (and the ME's). So what is it about WWII that was different from an online game?

1. No icons.  Period.   Icons are the number two reason that AW, FA, WB's and AH will never come close to simulating the real environment that pilots back then had to fly under. Who knows for WWII Online but they WILL have an icon type of system. Just a new method not beng shown at this time.

2.  FW's & ME's formed up before the bombers and escorts arrived. Then they massed together and worked as a team to nail the escorts and buffs in lighting fast attacks. Well. That was one plan. As long as the escorts didn't find them first. the arena in no way resembles the real air war nor the tactics used.

3. They didn't furball at 3k off the deck against several other planes on lone wolf sorties.  

4. In WWII you were in the REAL[/i] military. You took orders and obeyed them. You got permission to attack a bogy. Unless under attack. You flew with a squad. You were either a wingman or had one. None of this lone wolf hot shot fighter pilot that takes off, furballs, gets shot down, rinse, repeat, ad infinitum.

5. Online "pilots" can do it over, and over, and over, and over till they are literally incincible or just plain old damned good - be it from learning the "moves" or from "gaming" the game. Still put the best online flight sim "pilot" in the real thing and then take any average real life WII fighter pilot and I'l put my money on the real life guy any day.

6. In WWII you either lived (in whole or in peices) or you really died. There is no death in an online world. This is the number ONE[/i] reason you will never, ever be able to replicate any war.

 The numbers can be 100% on and the planes could be a perfect match to thier real life counter part. The "unreal" link will always be the human sitting behind the keyboard and plactic joystick.  

 just my .02.... <S>

   -Westy

[Naudet]

One comment on the Icon prob, in reality u can see planes at far greater distances than in a game, until we get a real good resolution, icons are the only way, to make it able to spot planes right.

i.e. even with contact lenses which only means i see 80% of what i see with glasses, i can see a Boing 737 up to 12kms or more at alltitudes of 6km+ and can guess its direction and speed. I dont think u r able to spot a B17 in AH at 15KM and guess it direction and speed. So u need the Icons to get a hind of the planes speed and distance and if it gets closer or flies away.

[Regurge]

Absolutely agree 100% Westy!

The MA isnt even close to what the real fighting was like.

In the latest frame of the Afrika Korps scenario my 190a5 squad engaged 2 squadrons of spit9s and mopped the floor with them. We were outnumbered 2 to 1 but we were able to overcome the odds by using team tactics and communication. We stayed fast, dove away from trouble, and cleared each other's 6.

Speed, dive, and firepower win those kind of battles.

There was very little if any stall turning so i tend to think we would have done about as well had we been flying A-8s.

[fd ski]

Regurge - there was only 5 190s that came after you.
Other 3 spits stayed over 202s and mopped the floor with them... then you bum wipes came back  


------------------
Bartlomiej Rajewski
aka. Wing Commander fd-ski
Northolt Wing
1st Polish Fighter Wing
303 (Polish) Squadron "Kosciuszko" RAF
308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF
315 (Polish) Squadron "City of Deblin" RAF

Turning 109s and 190s into scrap metal since 1998

Northolt Wing Headquarters