Kill Thieves

[BiPoLaR]

Guys who will out-and-out shoot a falling wreck are rare. Most of the time it happens it will be an accident. Friendlies deciding to "GANG" that bandit in your 12 are less rare unfortunately.

fixed

[Shuffler]

1. You approach as if to ho but dive to put your lift vector on the approaching con as he passes just overhead. You fire prior to the downward break just to keep him honest.

I don't fire here but do break.....

2. An enemy is on a friendly 6 - both are approaching. You ho to bail out your buddy.

Not a HO if your angled in which I think you would be to keep from hitting your team mate

3. You're in a furball and take a snapshot that happens to be HO.

That happens... non intentional

4. You approach a con ho but see that he's closing at sufficient speed that you can nose down roll, nose up right and flat turn him to an overshoot, even though you risk receiving a snapshot

Approaching from any front point you risk a snapshot

5. you ho right into the con's cockpit, guns blazing the whole way.

No good unless your way outnumbered

[waystin2]

NVM.  Was gonna vent.

[PJ_Godzilla]

I don't fire here but do break.....
Not a HO if your angled in which I think you would be to keep from hitting your team mate
That happens... non intentional
Approaching from any front point you risk a snapshot
No good unless your way outnumbered

Well, so here we go, Shuffler. On number 2, where I bail out my buddy, how big does the angle have to be to not constitute a HO? I guarantee you, ask 10 of these clowns and you'll get 10 different answers.

Of course, the proper answer is a cone with a central angle of 15 degrees...

Meanwhile, as I intended, you've just rationalized away 4 of 5 (possibly defined by others as) HOs, one with qualification. It's okay in a furball as long as it's unintentional... it's okay if you're bailing your buddy... it's okay to go into it as a fake/feint...

One man's HO is another man's ACM, or, it's kind of like porno: I know it when I see it?

I concede the point on 5, btw. It's mindless and a bad move with the Jumo out front. I'm just saying that the whole argument reminds me of talking about "fariness".

The concept needs to be well-defined before we use it as a standard. I don't see ho'ing as that well defined - except for case 5.

Also, WAYSTIN just checked his swing. What have you got on him?

[PJ_Godzilla]

NVM.  Was gonna vent.

No, no, let it out. Don't self-edit. Express yourself. 

[Shuffler]

#1 Last night I ended up being the only green guy in the midst of 4 reds guys (Spit 16, KI-61, P-38J and a P-47)

I dispatched the KI-61 then turned the 47 into a glider and oiled the pony. We were half a sector from their base and the pony and 47 headed for the barn. The spit followed them and I posted 200 that I was off. Was a good fight and no HOs. Had any of them HO'd I would have pressed the fight even though they were egressing. This fight was all under 5k.


#2 Last night I ended up being the only green guy in the midst of 4 reds guys (Spit 16, Mustang B, P-38J and a KI-61)

I dispatched the spit first... just how it worked out. Then as I was on the tony the pony kept coming through. I hit the mustang on a front quarter as he dove through and then continued on the tony. My number 2 engine failed at this point from an earlier oil hit from the spit. The tony was a glider and I continued to adjust for his moves. We were all on the deck over water. Eventually the 38 and pony finished me off and saved the KI. Great fight #2.

 No one ever HO'd but in this position if I had to I would shoot.


EDIT>> Don't think waystin's post was in reference to me.

[waystin2]

No, no, let it out. Don't self-edit. Express yourself. 

Sorry but no, those discussions are best handled privately not here on the boards.


 

[PJ_Godzilla]

Sorry but no, those discussions are best handled privately not here on the boards.


 

You pass too. Damn. I knew this was a good clientele.

[68ZooM]

i love when your working on a plane and someone calls out a check 6 call so you break off, only to learn theres no one behind ya, they dive in for the kill   

[Shuffler]

i love when your working on a plane and someone calls out a check 6 call so you break off, only to learn theres no one behind ya, they dive in for the kill  

Had you been watching you'd know you were clear

[Ack-Ack]

i love when your working on a plane and someone calls out a check 6 call so you break off, only to learn theres no one behind ya, they dive in for the kill   

I was in a fight like that a few years ago against Tac, both of us in P-38s.  Some guy comes in and gives me a couple of check 6 calls, so I break to avoid what I think is a pick pass on me.  Alas, it was just the other guy wanting to get me out of the way so he could pick Tac and claim the kill for himself.  After Tac easily reversed on the interloper and shot him down, Tac and I resumed our fight.


ack-ack

[Shuffler]

I was in a fight like that a few years ago against Tac, both of us in P-38s.  Some guy comes in and gives me a couple of check 6 calls, so I break to avoid what I think is a pick pass on me.  Alas, it was just the other guy wanting to get me out of the way so he could pick Tac and claim the kill for himself.  After Tac easily reversed on the interloper and shot him down, Tac and I resumed our fight.


ack-ack

Yup works wonders. When the guy hollers for help just check 6 him. 

[Chalenge]

some HO because it's a last ditch effort to kill the la7 that's going for the goon...
some HO because they are fighting 1 vs 4 and it's a last ditch effort to just stay alive...
some HO because it is the best shot on a set of bombers....

If I am turning with a plane that obviously has an ability to turn better but I see him drop flaps in order to get to a headon position... Im going to shoot him. Just one example of how the situation can influence a pilots decision and yet the faster turning plane will ALWAYS scream 'HO' yet its his actions that brought it to that point.

[DREDIOCK]

This is unhelpful advice if you're flying an aircraft with a small ammunition clip.  For instance, after shooting off the rear fuselage of a bandit with 30mm, a guy in a Spitfire chased him down to the ground firing his 20mm and received credit for the kill.  Shooting until they pop is gratuitous.  How kills are awarded should be tied to critical damage to parts like wings and fuselages; not total damage distributed in small amounts all over the airframe.

So what you do is make a note of who did it.  Give em a vox call out noting that they are obviously hard up for kills.
And the next time you see when that person needs a check 6..or his 6 cleared. Dont.

I do that to those and those that decide to use me for bait and dont have the curtsy to let me know they are doing it.

I dont carry a small ammo load But when Im in the D9 I usually cant spend alot of time twisting and turning with my target. Lest I become one myself. I take my shot and then move on to the next available target. Thus i get a lot of assists. I've probobly lost alot kills in the same manner you have mentioned.
But on the other hand. I've also had a quite a few incidents where I've ended up fighting someone. blasting them until they pop, or shot their wings off. and gotten only an assist.
In the end I figure it all balances out.

[DREDIOCK]

can we agree that it's ok to shoot a flaming A6M, seeing as how they'll fly 7 sectors with fire coming from their butt?

DEFINITELY!

Exactly why I argue that if we are going to have pilot wounds modeled they way they are. we should also have some sort of ill effect modeled into the flaming chariot.
As they are now. Its like if we had blood on the windscreen . But no detrimental effect (blackouts) or anything to discourage continuing to fight.

Cept for bombers that are nowhere near their target.
Any aircraft on fire is still a valid target till it blows up.