Looking for input on existing rig being ok to run AH 2.16

[Anodizer]

AH is far more CPU intensive than vid-card intensive. The RAM won't help, he already has more than enough.

Actually, it will help..  Right now, he's not even utilizing Dual Channel mode which his board is capable of..  Seeing that he's got 1.5 gigs, he doesn't even have a matched pair of sticks(memory).. 
To add to that, if he get's a CPU that supports HT(HyperThreading), he'll be much better off performance wise and take more advantage of HT capability..

[Krusty]

Dual channel isn't going to make or break his ability to run AH.

Trust me I've done it all over the years in regards to AH. Dual channel, non dual channel, single stick, slow CPU, slow vid card, and upgraded to many different stages of CPU, GPU, and RAM.

His ram is perfectly fine. Going from single channel 1.5 GB to dual channel 2 GB (edit: and changing nothing else along with it) would be a fart in the wind as far as AH is concerned.

P.S. He said his current CPU already supports HT. I had one that did as well, really not a fast CPU. the 3 GHZ plus range of P4 chips are okay for AH, but even the lowest end Conroe chip will smoke a 2.4GHz Pentium4.

[batch]

If your going to throw money hand over fist why would you bother upgrading using the same mobo in the first place......

if you have to replace the cpu, ram, psu, and video card, your $50-$75 away from replacing the mobo as well and having a MUCH better system

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Yep AGP systems are a dead end. Time to move on if you got the dough.

[Fulmar]

I wasn't meaning to infer that it was inferior from a technological point of view - I was referring to the behind-the-scenes maneuvering associated with it, given that Intel had a significant stake in the only company (or was it companies???) licensed to produce it. Like the allegedly "accidental" release of the flawed MTH which resulted in the "recall" of nearly a million Intel 820-based motherboards - mostly at the expense of the motherboard manufacturers.

<S>

Gotcha

[gyrene81]

AH is far more CPU intensive than vid-card intensive. The RAM won't help, he already has more than enough.

Sorry Krusty...no it's not. It's a pretty even spread for resource usage, but what's supposed to be using processor power is DirectX (although I've never had more than 76% processor usage with the game running using teamspeak and gamebooster). A P-4 2.4Ghz is more than adequate for AH right now...the video card and memory are the weak links in his system right now.

Yeah, don't get that P4..  You can find P4 3.2ghz HT 800FSB 1meg cache for 40 bucks or less..  The most your board will support is the P4 Extreme Edition 3.4ghz)the fastest Socket 478 processor produced)..  Not much of a boost from the 3.2 I mentioned...  Your board supports an 800mhz Front Side Bus, and is especially good at overclocking..

That's a hot processor, gonna need a really good cpu cooler in that system...and really good socket 478 cpu coolers are hard to find. His current processor is most likely a hyperthreading processor...pumping it up to a 3.2Ghz is going to get a very nominal performance increase.

Third, you need a better video card..  Straight up....  Even if you got the fastest Socket 478 processor, it wouldn't make much difference..  That card is seriously holding you back..  You could do so much better..  If you like Nvida, stick with anything like a 6800GT/GS or a 7800GS/GT if you can find one..  You are obviously limited to AGP but you still have some very viable choices! 
IF you want to go all out get the ATI/AMD HD 3850 which is (to date) the fastest AGP card available IIRC..  A power supply upgrade may be in order, though..  I would use something closer to 500 watts, atleast..  And a decent PSU at that..

Even though I'm an Nvidia fan...the fastest Nvidia AGP card isn't as good as the ATI4670 or 4650 which are the fastest available for AGP...but he will need a better power supply, a really good 500w would be the minimum.

Dual channel isn't going to make or break his ability to run AH.

Trust me I've done it all over the years in regards to AH. Dual channel, non dual channel, single stick, slow CPU, slow vid card, and upgraded to many different stages of CPU, GPU, and RAM.

His ram is perfectly fine. Going from single channel 1.5 GB to dual channel 2 GB (edit: and changing nothing else along with it) would be a fart in the wind as far as AH is concerned.

P.S. He said his current CPU already supports HT. I had one that did as well, really not a fast CPU. the 3 GHZ plus range of P4 chips are okay for AH, but even the lowest end Conroe chip will smoke a 2.4GHz Pentium4.

Dual channel does make a difference on the software performance end...but it's not like going from SDRAM to DDR2. With dual channel boards it is best to use the dual channel setup to ensure the memory channels are being utilized to their peak performance. I've done the bench testing, there is a difference in performance...some of it depends on the chipset being used on the mobo.

You're assuming that he's using a Prescott and not a Northwoods processor. You shouldn't underestimate the Northwoods hyperthreading processors. If he has a mobo that will handle the 800Mhz front side bus speed...adding a 3.2Ghz extreme edition Northwoods processor on there will give a really nice performance increase without spending a lot of money.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Intel-Pentium-4-3.2GHZ%2F512%2F800-Northwood-SL6WG-478-pin_W0QQitemZ380163050967QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20090929?IMSfp=TL090929149001r38769
I might jump on one of those myself.

[Masherbrum]

The previous AH version was more GPU dependent.   This version is CPU dependent. 

[batch]

The previous AH version was more GPU dependent.   This version is CPU dependent. 

actually you have that backwards

this version still relies heavily on the CPU yes......... but its alot more GPU dependant than the previous

[Anodizer]

Sorry Krusty...no it's not. It's a pretty even spread for resource usage, but what's supposed to be using processor power is DirectX (although I've never had more than 76% processor usage with the game running using teamspeak and gamebooster). A P-4 2.4Ghz is more than adequate for AH right now...the video card and memory are the weak links in his system right now.
That's a hot processor, gonna need a really good cpu cooler in that system...and really good socket 478 cpu coolers are hard to find. His current processor is most likely a hyperthreading processor...pumping it up to a 3.2Ghz is going to get a very nominal performance increase.


Even though I'm an Nvidia fan...the fastest Nvidia AGP card isn't as good as the ATI4670 or 4650 which are the fastest available for AGP...but he will need a better power supply, a really good 500w would be the minimum.

Dual channel does make a difference on the software performance end...but it's not like going from SDRAM to DDR2. With dual channel boards it is best to use the dual channel setup to ensure the memory channels are being utilized to their peak performance. I've done the bench testing, there is a difference in performance...some of it depends on the chipset being used on the mobo.

You're assuming that he's using a Prescott and not a Northwoods processor. You shouldn't underestimate the Northwoods hyperthreading processors. If he has a mobo that will handle the 800Mhz front side bus speed...adding a 3.2Ghz extreme edition Northwoods processor on there will give a really nice performance increase without spending a lot of money.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Intel-Pentium-4-3.2GHZ%2F512%2F800-Northwood-SL6WG-478-pin_W0QQitemZ380163050967QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20090929?IMSfp=TL090929149001r38769
I might jump on one of those myself.

The 3.2 I have overclocks easily to 3.7 and I use the stock cooler...  Processor temps don't go over much above 50-55C under heavy load..  It's quite stable and there's not way I could do this without having good memory in there (2 gigs of Crucial Ballistix pc4000)..  My bad on the vid card..  I haven't looked up at regarding AGP in probably more than a year..  The 3850 was the best AGP card at the time..  I'm sort of surprised they went even further than that!!  Just goes to show that AGP systems are in fact NOT dead..
As far as memory:  I messed around with memory, using different configurations, speed/voltage settings..  Obviously, some are better than others and it's always advisable to have a matched set for compatibility and performance reasons..  On average, I saw a 15% performance increase on some apps and games..  Even a 5% increase in performance is noticeable especially if you have bottlenecking issues..  Anyway, kids are yelling for stuff..  I'm done with this one..  <S> Gyrene for backing up most of what I said...<S>  

Edit: If you can find that processor with 1 meg cache as opposed to 512, all the better....

[Masherbrum]

actually you have that backwards

this version still relies heavily on the CPU yes......... but its alot more GPU dependant than the previous

This is contradictory to what I have been told by Skuzzy himself, when I built this machine last year.   The only thing you're describing would be "bottlenecks".

Also my previous post is spot on btw.   

[MrRiplEy[H]]

This is contradictory to what I have been told by Skuzzy himself, when I built this machine last year.   The only thing you're describing would be "bottlenecks".

Also my previous post is spot on btw.   

Current AH version was not released last year.

And to Anodizer: AGP is by all means a dead end. You can't get upgrade paths for any of your components in AGP motherboard. CPU, RAM, display, peripherals.. all a dead end. Even if you could continue getting AGP cards you will come severely CPU bottlenecked. All you can do is give expensive CPR to a dead end system.

[gyrene81]

Not that expensive Ripley and not that hard to do.

The most expensive part is IDE drives...SATA drives are a lot cheaper per GB...PSU could get expensive if he went higher end...the high end ATI AGP cards are at a very good price and fairly competitive in performance...used higher end CPU is not out of the question and very inexpensive.


Obviously the OP doesn't have and or doesn't want to spend money on a new system right now...so rather than tell the OP to spend money needlessly...CPU upgrade (used or new) is not necessary but could have benefits if he got an 800Mhz FSB processor (not the Prescott chip)...video card is definately needed...better power supply is a pre-requisite to video card upgrade...new memory chips to take advantage of dual channel timings and improve memory performance...under $200 if he chooses well.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Not that expensive Ripley and not that hard to do.

The most expensive part is IDE drives...SATA drives are a lot cheaper per GB...PSU could get expensive if he went higher end...the high end ATI AGP cards are at a very good price and fairly competitive in performance...used higher end CPU is not out of the question and very inexpensive.


Obviously the OP doesn't have and or doesn't want to spend money on a new system right now...so rather than tell the OP to spend money needlessly...CPU upgrade (used or new) is not necessary but could have benefits if he got an 800Mhz FSB processor (not the Prescott chip)...video card is definately needed...better power supply is a pre-requisite to video card upgrade...new memory chips to take advantage of dual channel timings and improve memory performance...under $200 if he chooses well.

The point is I'd rather save money for a complete overhaul than spend money trying to delay the inevitable. Get a new AGP card? Fine. But leave it at there.

[batch]

This is contradictory to what I have been told by Skuzzy himself, when I built this machine last year.   The only thing you're describing would be "bottlenecks".

Also my previous post is spot on btw.   

I bet if I searched hard enough I could find 50 threads before the release of the updates in which skuzzy says the game is more CPU dependant......... and since the updates he has not commented either way

and while its still CPU intensive since the updates..... because of the eye candy and the way it loads now its also very GPU intensive

you can still run this game full out with a slower processor as long as you have a smokin vid card............. but you cant run it very well at all the other way around

[Fulmar]

I agree with whatever Ripley says.