Author Topic: Stuka upgrade  (Read 3254 times)

Offline IrishOne

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Re: Stuka upgrade
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2009, 07:58:10 PM »
I apologize, i misread my information....I don't post here much so please bear with me.  The information I got was on a single a/c, S/N TB863. http://www.aviationmuseum.com.au/aircraft/SpitfireMkXVI.cfm          Again, sorry for the confusion on my part, I will dig a little deeper before posting again. <S>
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Offline haggerty

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Re: Stuka upgrade
« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2009, 07:47:13 PM »
I would love to see a 37mm gun pod option for the D-3, or the introduction of the G1 which sounds like it was just a D series with upgraded pilot armor and 37mm pods.
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Offline Plawranc

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Re: Stuka upgrade
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2009, 08:11:20 PM »
To shut Ack-Ack up,We could take the Stuka Model we have now. Tweak the speed and increase durability, fit it with two German 20mms with the same ord load outs + the 37mms.

And cross out the D-3 and Write D.5

Which would take HTC at max a week and Im being generous there.
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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Stuka upgrade
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2009, 08:51:36 PM »
To shut Ack-Ack up,We could take the Stuka Model we have now. Tweak the speed and increase durability, fit it with two German 20mms with the same ord load outs + the 37mms.

And cross out the D-3 and Write D.5

Which would take HTC at max a week and Im being generous there.

You'd have to tweak more than speed and increase durability to turn the D-3 into a D-5, but hey, don't let historical accuracy get in your way.

And you guys wonder why we long time players laugh at you console kiddies.


ack-ack
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Offline phatzo

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Re: Stuka upgrade
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2009, 10:12:44 PM »
I have to say that I agree with Akak, if we start messing around with loadouts to substitute another model we open the door to all sorts of other stuff, its the thin edge of the wedge, next thing you know we'll have rocket powered triplanes and pumpkins  :bolt:
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Offline gyrene81

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Re: Stuka upgrade
« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2009, 11:09:03 PM »
You'd have to tweak more than speed and increase durability to turn the D-3 into a D-5, but hey, don't let historical accuracy get in your way.

And you guys wonder why we long time players laugh at you console kiddies.


ack-ack
Didn't know you were there flying Stukas...amazing stuff. Please tell me your squadron commander wouldn't allow field mods in your D-3 model without Goering's approval in writing.
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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Stuka upgrade
« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2009, 03:21:46 AM »
Didn't know you were there flying Stukas...amazing stuff. Please tell me your squadron commander wouldn't allow field mods in your D-3 model without Goering's approval in writing.

Maybe if you would crack open a book about the planes in this game, you'd maybe learn something in the process.  Again, there are absolutely no records or any other evidence that the D-3 carried the 20 mm wing mounted cannons.  You want to know why?  Because only the D-5 and later the G-2 (which was based on the D-5) had the 20 mm cannons.  If you have definitive proof that shows otherwise, please by all means post the evidence. 

It would take more than just a 'field mod' to make a D-3 to D-5 standards, this is something that you and some others in here have a tough time comprehending.  Maybe if I was to type slower you might understand but something tells me it would be a lost cause.


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Offline haggerty

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Re: Stuka upgrade
« Reply #22 on: November 06, 2009, 04:18:53 AM »
Maybe if you would crack open a book about the planes in this game, you'd maybe learn something in the process.  Again, there are absolutely no records or any other evidence that the D-3 carried the 20 mm wing mounted cannons.  You want to know why?  Because only the D-5 and later the G-2 (which was based on the D-5) had the 20 mm cannons.  If you have definitive proof that shows otherwise, please by all means post the evidence. 

It would take more than just a 'field mod' to make a D-3 to D-5 standards, this is something that you and some others in here have a tough time comprehending.  Maybe if I was to type slower you might understand but something tells me it would be a lost cause.


ack-ack




I agree, the 20's have no place on the D-3 as it was never documented historically.  But the 37's were fitted to D-3's and D-3's were also converted to G-2's...
The most likely update to the stuka if there ever will be one is the adition of 37mm option or just introduce the G-1.
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Offline Plawranc

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Re: Stuka upgrade
« Reply #23 on: November 06, 2009, 04:54:50 AM »
You'd have to tweak more than speed and increase durability to turn the D-3 into a D-5, but hey, don't let historical accuracy get in your way.

And you guys wonder why we long time players laugh at you console kiddies.


ack-ack

2 years playing this game and an in depth knowledge of WW2 aircraft. So Ulrich Rudels Ace record of ground kills is void because he didn't have these tank busters, he had a "field mod' and his kills were made by "local tanks' which he took claim for.

It is recorded and lo and behold, Il2's Oleg Maddox has the JU87 Tank buster with 20mms 37's. A weapon change is really the only MAJOR change in the stuka variant.

Oh and this is a SIMULATOR not the real deal, so we do not have angry russians 2 weeks away and we do not have angry Germans bombing our factories. We like PLANES. and if we want a plane and the majority wants it then we should get it in due course. Im not suggesting anything like Amraams, what Im saying is. If it was in WW2 we should be allowed to have it and that model Stuka CERTAINLY was there in substantaial numbers.

So Ack-Ack, Give me the top five reasons WHY this plane should not and will not be added.
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Offline gyrene81

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Re: Stuka upgrade
« Reply #24 on: November 06, 2009, 10:30:29 AM »
Maybe if you would crack open a book about the planes in this game, you'd maybe learn something in the process.  Again, there are absolutely no records or any other evidence that the D-3 carried the 20 mm wing mounted cannons.  You want to know why?  Because only the D-5 and later the G-2 (which was based on the D-5) had the 20 mm cannons.  If you have definitive proof that shows otherwise, please by all means post the evidence. 

It would take more than just a 'field mod' to make a D-3 to D-5 standards, this is something that you and some others in here have a tough time comprehending.  Maybe if I was to type slower you might understand but something tells me it would be a lost cause.


ack-ack


Maybe you should re-read the differences between the models again, because aside aside from the engines, no other major modifications that would show a visible difference were made between the D-3 and the G-1...of which the base models for the G-1 were the D-1 and D-5. The G-2 variant was produced from modified D-5s. Perhaps while you're making your claims on "historical accuracy" you can figure out why the dive sirens still exist on the D-3 Stukas in AH when they were removed on the D-3 models in real life.

There is only one documented claim of a Ju-87D-3 being equipped with 20mm's and that was reportedly flown by Hans Rudel successfully against Soviet tanks. It was a field mod. Other than that, the supposed original plans for the G-1 were to use 30mm cannons and not the 37mm...but after tests with a converted D-1 model that had a Jumo 211J and 37mm gun pods mounted on it, many already in service  D-1's and D-3's were converted to the specifications of the G-1 before that model was produced in sufficient quantities using the D-1 and D3 airframes and armor.

That sir is in your books.
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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Stuka upgrade
« Reply #25 on: November 06, 2009, 01:13:47 PM »
2 years playing this game and an in depth knowledge of WW2 aircraft. So Ulrich Rudels Ace record of ground kills is void because he didn't have these tank busters, he had a "field mod' and his kills were made by "local tanks' which he took claim for.

Wow, you're so far off the argument that it's funny.  Maybe you should start reading some books and stop getting your plane information from shows on the History and Military Channel. 

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It is recorded and lo and behold, Il2's Oleg Maddox has the JU87 Tank buster with 20mms 37's. A weapon change is really the only MAJOR change in the stuka variant.

Which version of the Ju87 is modeled in IL2?  Again, a weapons change is not the only major difference between the D-3 and the D-5.

Quote
Oh and this is a SIMULATOR not the real deal, so we do not have angry russians 2 weeks away and we do not have angry Germans bombing our factories. We like PLANES. and if we want a plane and the majority wants it then we should get it in due course. Im not suggesting anything like Amraams, what Im saying is. If it was in WW2 we should be allowed to have it and that model Stuka CERTAINLY was there in substantaial numbers.

You are advocating adding something to a plane that it did not field in real life.  You point out this is a simulation and it is, it's a simulation of aerial and ground combat using historically accurate WW2 aircraft.  Your wish would be like me asking for the P-38K or having 8 .50 cals in the P-38L.

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So Ack-Ack, Give me the top five reasons WHY this plane should not and will not be added.

I've already given you the reasons why the D-3 shouldn't have the option to have 20 mm cannons in the wing.  Again, show any evidence that the D-3 had 20 mm cannons in the wings and were used operationally in numbers.

Maybe you should re-read the differences between the models again, because aside aside from the engines, no other major modifications that would show a visible difference were made between the D-3 and the G-1...of which the base models for the G-1 were the D-1 and D-5. The G-2 variant was produced from modified D-5s.

Of course there is no visual difference between the D-3 and the G-1, the G-1 was basically a D-3 with the 37 mm Flak 18 gun pods.  The G-1 was based solely on the D-3.  After the Battle of Kursk, those D-3s that were equipped with the 37 mm Flak 18 cannon were given the G-1 designation.  The D-1 and the D-5 were not base models for the G-1.

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Perhaps while you're making your claims on "historical accuracy" you can figure out why the dive sirens still exist on the D-3 Stukas in AH when they were removed on the D-3 models in real life.

Sure I can figure out why some players have the 'Horns of Jericho' in game.  It's due to the custom sound pack they're using, the default sounds for the Ju-87D-3 in game does not have the siren. Some customer sound pack creators switched the Wind sound file for the siren because some players requested it. 

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There is only one documented claim of a Ju-87D-3 being equipped with 20mm's and that was reportedly flown by Hans Rudel successfully against Soviet tanks. It was a field mod. Other than that, the supposed original plans for the G-1 were to use 30mm cannons and not the 37mm...but after tests with a converted D-1 model that had a Jumo 211J and 37mm gun pods mounted on it, many already in service  D-1's and D-3's were converted to the specifications of the G-1 before that model was produced in sufficient quantities using the D-1 and D3 airframes and armor.

That sir is in your books.

Please, show this 'official document' that shows Rudel flew a D-3 that had 20 mm cannons mounted in the wing like the D-5 or any other Ju87 variant fielded 20 mm cannons mounted in the wings.  The only other one was the D-4 and that was only on paper as the D-4 was a naval variant prototype.

Yes, various D models were used as test beds to test different weapons configurations but these were one offs and most didn't see operational status beyond one or two aircraft and never in squadron strength.

Using your argument, we should get the P-38K, after all one prototype was built and that should be sufficient enough to get it added and we might as well get a P-38L with 6 and 8 .50 cal machine guns mounted in the nose.  Let's just chuck out historical accuracy to cater to you console kiddies.

ack-ack

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Offline gyrene81

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Re: Stuka upgrade
« Reply #26 on: November 06, 2009, 02:59:14 PM »
Of course there is no visual difference between the D-3 and the G-1, the G-1 was basically a D-3 with the 37 mm Flak 18 gun pods.  The G-1 was based solely on the D-3.  After the Battle of Kursk, those D-3s that were equipped with the 37 mm Flak 18 cannon were given the G-1 designation.  The D-1 and the D-5 were not base models for the G-1.
Yeah I wrote the wrong thing in there...the D-1 and D-3 were the base models used during the initial field conversions after the idea was accepted by Luftwaffe command. After that the D-3 was the airframe used in the G-1. The D-5 which had longer wings and a few other modifications was the base model used in the G-2.

According to Rudel's story the initial 37mm battle tests were with an experimental squadron sent to the Eastern front which he got assigned to...that was a few months before he was awarded the oak leaves for his Knight's Cross and re-assigned (at his request) to his original Stuka squadron. I'm still looking for the reference on the 20mm experiment, but your point of "one off" and "prototype" I agree with. Doesn't belong.


Let's just chuck out historical accuracy to cater to you console kiddies.

ack-ack
I don't play consoles...don't even own one, so you can keep your ill attempted insult.

The fact is that the D-3 model in AH is such that it could be given "alternate" options in weapons loadouts including wing mounted 20mm MG/151-20 cannons since the only physically discernible difference between the D-3 and the D-5 was the length of the wings...and after the introduction of the Jumo 213 engine the longer wings on the D-5 were no longer needed. The D-5 model had 3 different engines, 1 wing modification, 1 aileron modification and the floor window was reinforced. From photographs it's very difficult to tell the difference between the D-3 and D-5.

That being the case, would it be ok with you in your "expert opinion" if we ask that the current Ju-87 in game be "upgraded" to the D-5 model and have the 37mm gunpods available as an "alternate" loadout?
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Offline Karnak

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Re: Stuka upgrade
« Reply #27 on: November 06, 2009, 03:51:23 PM »
The solution is obvious, and there is no need to toss insults.

When the Ju87 gets redone, update the Ju87D-3 and add the Ju87G-3 as a separate aircraft.  Add a BoB Ju87 while at it too.
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Offline Plawranc

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Re: Stuka upgrade
« Reply #28 on: November 07, 2009, 03:40:38 AM »
Ok Ack-Ack I am now officially sick of your demenour and contempt.

I may be 15 years old and yes I do play consoles. But I have been flight simming for almost all my life and have been facsinated with planes since I became self aware. So to say that I have no knowledge of aircraft and their history PARTICULARLY Second World War aircraft is ludicrous.

So please, If you have no constructive input to add to this idea. Butt out.
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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Stuka upgrade
« Reply #29 on: November 07, 2009, 06:44:44 AM »
Ok Ack-Ack I am now officially sick of your demenour and contempt.

I may be 15 years old and yes I do play consoles. But I have been flight simming for almost all my life and have been facsinated with planes since I became self aware. So to say that I have no knowledge of aircraft and their history PARTICULARLY Second World War aircraft is ludicrous.

Well, you haven't shown any real knowledge of history, particularly in regards to WW2 aircraft.  Oh, and by the way, I've been playing online flight sims since before you were born. 

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So please, If you have no constructive input to add to this idea. Butt out.

So, someone can only post in this thread if they agree with your wildly inaccurate historical wish?  Nut up little man and get used to people disagreeing with you.


ack-ack
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