Author Topic: WW1 arena  (Read 8454 times)

Offline NoBaddy

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Re: WW1 arena
« Reply #210 on: October 22, 2009, 02:08:37 PM »
Never happened!

He was not shot down. He hitch hiked to the german airfield appropriated a fw190 in flyable condition. He was escorted back to his base by 51Ds where he had to belly land it.

Shuff...

He is telling you what Bruce Carr told us. I was there as well. :)

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Offline Motherland

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Re: WW1 arena
« Reply #211 on: October 22, 2009, 02:11:19 PM »
I absolutely did but my making light of your question having already been
answered (and obviously too) flew right over your head. So I'll elaborate..

Once upon a time there was an online survey. Which was closely followed
by a topic of 13 pages long about it!

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,256883.0.html

Well.

The RESULTS of the survey were announced in the news section the
other day when they stated that they ARE going to ADD WWI aircraft
and an arena to use them in.   What more are you looking for?
An email or an actual vote tally?


"Results of what survey?.... If HTC published the results of their survey,
then I've definately missed that."





I think that, for better or for worse (generally for better), HTC doesn't really care what people say they want (perhaps that can be taken the wrong way- they use a lot of salt). HiTech has more or less said this before in 20+ page threads about ENY and arena caps where vast quantities of people complain about how terrible and oppressive these systems are. HTC does what they know will work best for their bottom line and in the end, theoretically for the player base.
To be honest I would imagine that the poll was more or less an afterthought after the decision was made, and that the only way that they would have changed their minds if there was a significant majority in the 'I don't want anything to do with this'- after all, much of what this is intended to do, I would assume, is to expand the player base, not just placate the existing base, and that demographic (those who don't already play) would not be able to vote in the poll.

Offline Shuffler

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Re: WW1 arena
« Reply #212 on: October 22, 2009, 03:36:02 PM »
Shuff...

He is telling you what Bruce Carr told us. I was there as well. :)



The story has grown then hasn't it.

Did he capture hitler all by himself?  lol Kind of like in Seargent York when the doughboys are marching.

"In response to requests for more details and photos of Bruce Carr's supposed stolen FW-190, here is the real story. AFTER VE-Day the 354th FG was on occupation duty and everyone was bored.
Many of the group's personnel began appropiating captured Luftwaffe equiptment including car, cycles and of course for the pilots a/c for their own enjoyment. Maj. Jim Dalglish CO of the 353rd FG had his own FW-190. Bruce Carr decided to get one for himself and hitchhiked to a German airfield near Linz, Austria where he found a flyable FW-109. Has prearranged, a flight of 353rd FS P-51Ds arrived overhead to escort Carr and his prize back to the 354th FG's homebase at Ansbach. Unfortunately Carr couldn't get the gear down and slide the FW in on it's belly.
After this inclident the practice of flying German aircraft was banned. Sorry no shotdown, evasion or stolen FW just one a post war adventure that turn into a whopper of a story. "

« Last Edit: October 22, 2009, 03:38:51 PM by Shuffler »
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Offline SB

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Re: WW1 arena
« Reply #213 on: October 22, 2009, 08:34:03 PM »
The story has grown then hasn't it.

Did he capture hitler all by himself?  lol Kind of like in Seargent York when the doughboys are marching.

"In response to requests for more details and photos of Bruce Carr's supposed stolen FW-190, here is the real story. AFTER VE-Day the 354th FG was on occupation duty and everyone was bored.
Many of the group's personnel began appropiating captured Luftwaffe equiptment including car, cycles and of course for the pilots a/c for their own enjoyment. Maj. Jim Dalglish CO of the 353rd FG had his own FW-190. Bruce Carr decided to get one for himself and hitchhiked to a German airfield near Linz, Austria where he found a flyable FW-109. Has prearranged, a flight of 353rd FS P-51Ds arrived overhead to escort Carr and his prize back to the 354th FG's homebase at Ansbach. Unfortunately Carr couldn't get the gear down and slide the FW in on it's belly.
After this inclident the practice of flying German aircraft was banned. Sorry no shotdown, evasion or stolen FW just one a post war adventure that turn into a whopper of a story. "

(Image removed from quote.)

and your information came from where?


Bruce Carr
Reproduced with permission of Air Force Magazine, copyright protected
Valor, February 1995, Vol. 78, No. 2, by John L. Frisbee, Contributing Editor

Thanks, Luftwaffe

Downed far behind enemy lines, an American P-51 pilot made a dramatic escape with the unintended help of the Luftwaffe.

Bruce Carr ended World War II as a lieutenant with 14 victories confirmed and the Distinguished Service Cross. Despite all that, he denies any claim to heroism--a doubtful assertion--but he can't disclaim his role in a daring experience, to our knowledge unique in the history of that war.

Bruce Carr was a P-51 pilot with the 354th Fighter Group. At the time of this adventure, the group was based in France. In October 1944, while on a mission over Czechoslovakia, he was downed by flak. After days of evading--cold, hungry, and physically exhausted--he decided it was better to turn himself in to the Luftwaffe than to risk capture by the locals. He knew from the surrounding air activity that there was a German airfield not far away.

Lieutenant Carr found his way to the field and hid in the forest outside a fence surrounding a revetment in the woods. An FW-190 was parked there; its ground crew was completing servicing the aircraft. It was full of fuel and ready to go. Carr's plan of surrender took a 180-degree turn to the positive side. Maybe he could "borrow" the enemy fighter and fly back to his base in France. If he were caught tinkering with the bird, things would not go well, but it was worth a shot.

As dusk fell, Carr slipped through the fence and climbed into the FW-190. In the failing light, he did his best to familiarize himself with the cockpit and get ready for a takeoff at dawn. All switches and gauges were labeled in German, hence of no help. Then by the gray light of dawn, the young lieutenant found the switches for gear and flaps. Now to start the engine and get on his way before the ground crew arrived to preflight the bird.

To the right of the seat was a handle that he guessed might have something to do with starting the engine. Already there were sounds of activity on the field, so he didn't have much time for experimenting. Cautiously, Carr pulled the handle. Nothing happened. He tried pushing it. He was rewarded by the sound of an inertial starter winding up. Pulling the handle must engage the starter, he guessed. He cracked the throttle, wound up the starter, and pulled. The engine came to life with a roar. Taxiing through the woods with no parachute, helmet, or radio, he could see a green field ahead and no signs of unfriendly reaction. Carr firewalled the throttle, then roared across the field and into the air, leveling off at treetop altitude. He saw no sign of pursuit as he headed for home. Flying the fighter was no problem. An airplane is an airplane, as they say. He didn't have time to consider what would happen at the field when the Germans discovered one of their planes was missing.

All went well until he reached the front lines. Every armed Allied soldier in range opened fire on him. There was little Lieutenant Carr could do in the way of evasive action since he was blowing leaves off the tops of trees, but his luck held. No hits.

Another problem lay ahead: the likelihood of being shot down by his own airfield defenses. Without a radio, he had no way of assuring them that this was a friendly FW-190. It was best to get on the ground as fast as possible. He came screaming in on the deck, pulled up, rolled over on his back, reefed it in for a short approach, dropped flaps, and pushed the button he thought would lower the landing gear. There was no reassuring thump of gear coming down. As he pulled up for another try, he could see the AA crews uncovering their 40-mm guns. With no parachute, his only option for avoiding another encounter with flak was to belly in. This he did without injury.

As the FW-190 ground to a stop, Lieutenant Carr was surrounded by MPs, whom he could not convince that he was a 354th pilot on a delayed return from a mission. Things grew more and more tense until the group commander, Col. George Bickell, arrived and stuck his head into the cockpit. His first words were, "Carr, where in hell have you been?"

After his extraordinary experience, Bruce Carr was back on operations in a few days. By April 15, he was credited with 7.5 more victories, five on one mission, putting him among the top 50 World War II AAF fighter aces. Today, retired Colonel Carr flies a P-51 owned by Dr. Joseph Newsome--but, he says, a little more conservatively than in years gone by. And with the consent of the owner.


Sources:

Air Force Magazine, Valor, February 1995, Vol. 78, No. 2, by John L. Frisbee

SB

Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: WW1 arena
« Reply #214 on: October 22, 2009, 09:23:21 PM »
back on the idea of a WWI arena... I'm looking forward to the change of pace.   :)    Slow things down a bit.   ;)

One would have to believe that less coding, or less intricate coding would be involved due to the much narrower band of aircraft performances in WWI. 
 
It will be interesting.  Lets hope the WWI project doesn't tie up resources that could be used to better the WWII arena.  There are some holes left in the aircraft list (He111, P40N, 109G-10, Mig-3, a true Mossi FB Mk IV, D520, Ki45, etc) AND there are some glaring and I suppose debatable "inaccuracies" in a number of WWII aircraft.       :(
Proud grandson of the late Lt. Col. Darrell M. "Bud" Gray, USAF (ret.), B24D pilot, 5th BG/72nd BS. 28 combat missions within the "slot", PTO.

Offline bravoa8

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Re: WW1 arena
« Reply #215 on: October 22, 2009, 10:03:57 PM »
I like that pic there Shuffler nice find. :)

Offline Boxboy

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Re: WW1 arena
« Reply #216 on: October 22, 2009, 10:34:03 PM »
LOL the efforts Shuf is willing to go to derail WWI are epic  :noid :cheers:
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Offline Fencer51

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Re: WW1 arena
« Reply #217 on: October 22, 2009, 10:44:59 PM »
Whilst getting my hair cut today I was being entertained with the barber's vacation.  Seems he went to the Eagles Museum in Elmira/Corning NY.  (Been there in 1998)

His guide was a WWII vet, 85 years old.  The guy was a hoot evidently.  Called a pair of scottish visiting who didn't want a guide "damned foreigners!"

But anyway, seems he was in the air force in WWII, in the Battle of the Bulge.  Seems he was a pilot in the 9th AF who was drafted to DRIVE TANKS in Patton's Army while it was refueling for the drive on Bastogne.  They evidently needed the men.  Patton told him "If you can fly a plane, you can drive a tank".  So he was sent off to drive a tank to Bastogne.  He also knew the guy who found the Germans flying that piper cub in the fog.  Said that Henry Fonda protrayed him very well.

Now, the guy is 85.  Cusses like a banshee evidently, and has every darn right to enjoy himself and show people around his musem and entertain them.  More power and a long happy life to him.

However, I have been taking all stories from Vets with a grain of salt since the 80s.  Each year the stories grow in the telling as memories get more cloudy.

I was there in 98 (?) when Carr buzzed our buses at the air musem in 'Crazy Horse'.  I heard that story and rolled my eyes at the time.  The guy was a great pilot, did very well in the war and had no need to stretch the truth.. but that doesn't mean that he didn't and that his memory of what happened might have been fogged by time.  If its true, great.  But like all stories by vets in their later years I would suggest research and a step back to look at the whole story.

And back on topic, I cannot wait to start skinning WWI aircraft!
« Last Edit: October 22, 2009, 10:46:38 PM by Fencer51 »
Fencer
The names of the irrelevant have been changed to protect their irrelevance.
The names of the innocent and the guilty have not been changed.
As for the innocent, everyone needs to know they are innocent –
As for the guilty… they can suck it.

Offline Shuffler

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Re: WW1 arena
« Reply #218 on: October 22, 2009, 11:36:32 PM »
Info & pic from Dan(Corkyjr)
« Last Edit: October 22, 2009, 11:38:32 PM by Shuffler »
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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: WW1 arena
« Reply #219 on: October 23, 2009, 12:11:04 AM »
and your information came from where?



SB

After I read the story of Carr, I was curious to see if there were any German records about the incident.  It would have been pretty interesting to read about the affair from the German perspective, especially about their Focke Wulf being stolen.  So I posted in the SAPP forums asking Dan if he knew of any German records about the incident and he replied back with the real story of what happened. 

I consider Dan to a rather good source when it comes to things like this.


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Offline Brooke

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Re: WW1 arena
« Reply #220 on: October 23, 2009, 01:09:33 AM »
And back on topic, I cannot wait to start skinning WWI aircraft!

But some for Witchcraft first?  :pray

Offline xthecatx

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Re: WW1 arena
« Reply #221 on: October 23, 2009, 04:51:36 AM »
Can't wait :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

Offline Westy

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Re: WW1 arena
« Reply #222 on: October 23, 2009, 07:35:49 AM »
"I consider Dan to a rather good source when it comes to things like this."

Absolutely. And he's always handled telling the facts with class and courtesy.
Something Shuffler may want to try and practice to get right someday too..


Fencer, can't wait to see your artistry in action!  I have the following in pdf form
if you would like them for reference:

Fokker Dr.I         Fokker DR-1 in Detail  and    Profile Publications No.55 - Fokker Dr.I
Sopwith Camel   Profile Publications No.31 - Sopwith Camel
Fokker D.VII       Fokker D.VII in Detail  and    Profile Publications No.25 - Fokker D.VII 
« Last Edit: October 23, 2009, 07:43:27 AM by Westy »

Offline SB

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Re: WW1 arena
« Reply #223 on: October 23, 2009, 08:53:57 AM »
Then I guess I'm curious as to where Dan got his information as I have not found any references to this story being false. I would expect the Airforce Magazine to do proper research before they publish an article.

SB

Offline Shuffler

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Re: WW1 arena
« Reply #224 on: October 23, 2009, 09:10:03 AM »
"I consider Dan to a rather good source when it comes to things like this."

Absolutely. And he's always handled telling the facts with class and courtesy.
Something Shuffler may want to try and practice to get right someday too..


Fencer, can't wait to see your artistry in action!  I have the following in pdf form
if you would like them for reference:

Fokker Dr.I         Fokker DR-1 in Detail  and    Profile Publications No.55 - Fokker Dr.I
Sopwith Camel   Profile Publications No.31 - Sopwith Camel
Fokker D.VII       Fokker D.VII in Detail  and    Profile Publications No.25 - Fokker D.VII  


Sorry I am so blunt. Maybe you should quit reading my post if you don't like the truth.


Then I guess I'm curious as to where Dan got his information as I have not found any references to this story being false. I would expect the Airforce Magazine to do proper research before they publish an article.

SB

Good question.. I'll see if I can find out or have him post it.
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