Author Topic: John Adams series on HBO  (Read 2034 times)

Offline TracerX

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Re: John Adams series on HBO
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2009, 11:57:31 AM »
Adams was wedged between two of the most dynamic, and intelligent men of the late 18th Century, Hamilton and Jefferson.  He was a weak administrator, and completely outclassed by both of these men.  He only managed a few real successes during his Presidency, most notably his policy regarding France, and the resolution of the Quasi-war.  I like Adams however as there is no doubt that his moral character was of the highest caliber, and was a keen and just observer of human rights and justice.  But he is somewhat reclusive in nature, which curtailed his ability to administer as he needed to during his Presidency.  He frequetly retreated to his estate and left important issues on the table, undecided for long periods of time.  The real Great man of this period was his predecessor, George Washington, who was able to keep both of these two dynamic personalities (Hamilton and Jefferson) largely in check, and use the best ideas of both, although Jefferson often felt he was being overlooked.

As for the series, Hamilton is not the arrogant, scheming elitist, and Jefferson is not the humble, good-natured gentleman that is presented.  Both were hopelessly uncompromising, with Hamilton easily the most intelligent visionary, Jefferson, the most aristocratic and naive idealist, and Adams was the quiet spoken reclusive patriot.  Still, I believe that Adams was the most faithfully done of the three, as his personality and nature was well captured by the actor, yet I will have to watch more of it to see how badly Hamilton was demonized.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2009, 12:04:43 PM by TracerX »

Offline zack1234

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Re: John Adams series on HBO
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2009, 12:24:18 PM »
John Adams is the guy that was going around advocating freedom from the tyrant you people called a king.
Freedom for slaves that's nice
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Offline Chalenge

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Re: John Adams series on HBO
« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2009, 12:30:57 PM »
Both freedom for slaves and despots. In order to keep the southern states loyal to the new union the freedom for slaves had to be given up. 'One cause at a time' Adams told Jefferson.
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Offline zack1234

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Re: John Adams series on HBO
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2009, 12:37:16 PM »
So Jefferson had slaves?
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Offline TracerX

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Re: John Adams series on HBO
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2009, 12:55:46 PM »
So Jefferson had slaves?

Over 200 of them, and was one of the only founding fathers that did not free his slaves, or a large number of them upon his death.

To Adams credit, he was the only founding father that had Zero slaves.  Hamilton, possibly even more of an abolishionist than Adams, had only a couple household slaves, which came from his wife's side of the family. 

« Last Edit: October 22, 2009, 01:00:56 PM by TracerX »

Offline zack1234

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Re: John Adams series on HBO
« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2009, 01:00:20 PM »
So let me get this right he was a wonderful person who freed people from despots, and he bought and sold human beings?
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Offline TracerX

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Re: John Adams series on HBO
« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2009, 01:03:02 PM »
So let me get this right he was a wonderful person who freed people from despots, and he bought and sold human beings?

That is correct.  This is undoubtedly Jeffersons biggest flaw.  However, it would be a mistake to discount his many other accomplishments because of this, but it is a glaring inconsistency.

Offline zack1234

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Re: John Adams series on HBO
« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2009, 01:32:00 PM »
Flaw is a nice safe word, Britain banned slavery not Adams and Jefferson.
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Offline Kermit de frog

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Re: John Adams series on HBO
« Reply #23 on: October 22, 2009, 01:34:58 PM »
Flaw is a nice safe word, Britain banned slavery not Adams and Jefferson.

 :headscratch:

When did Britain ban slavery?  1945?
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Offline Saxman

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Re: John Adams series on HBO
« Reply #24 on: October 22, 2009, 01:38:16 PM »
Flaw is a nice safe word, Britain banned slavery not Adams and Jefferson.

Oh, here we go.

Britain may have nominally banned slavery before it was abolished here, but up until modern times native peoples living under the British Empire may AS WELL have been slaves, because that's exactly how they were treated.
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Offline zack1234

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Re: John Adams series on HBO
« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2009, 01:52:58 PM »
Native American Indians?
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Offline gyrene81

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Re: John Adams series on HBO
« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2009, 01:56:05 PM »
Flaw is a nice safe word, Britain banned slavery not Adams and Jefferson.
Not really...it was deemed "illegal" in 1772 but it wasn't until 1807 that Britain officially "abolished the slave trade" for the entire "British Empire". Britain's slave history is not something to overlook though, since British ships were used heavily in the slave trade and the country profited greatly from slavery.


And don't bring up the Native American Indians...they were victims of the Western European "Christianity mindset plague"...started by British immigrants.
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Offline TracerX

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Re: John Adams series on HBO
« Reply #27 on: October 22, 2009, 01:57:35 PM »
Oh, here we go.

Britain may have nominally banned slavery before it was abolished here, but up until modern times native peoples living under the British Empire may AS WELL have been slaves, because that's exactly how they were treated.

One of the crucial hanging points on the Peace Treaty with England following the War was the resolution of the Slaves that were carried off by England.  There were large numbers of Plantation owners that wanted their slaves back, but the treaty did not demand their return, so many in the south were sorely disappointed with the Jay Treaty.  I am not sure if these slaves were freed or not while in English hands, but it seems to me that it was better to be a black man in England than in the American South at the time.

Offline Stalwart

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Re: John Adams series on HBO
« Reply #28 on: October 22, 2009, 02:02:55 PM »
Quit it Frog before you get this thread locked.

Zack, people forget this our little BBS is viewed world wide.  Maybe people didn't know you are British.  Most Americans would know who John Adams is because he was the second president of the United States.

Adams was a lawyer in Massachusetts who served the cause of justice faithfully, even defending the British soldiers and their officer who fired upon the crowd in Boston before the war.  Adams had ambitions to serve in the Kings continental government but chose instead to be guided by his conscience.  He regarded with disdain the infringements of freedom imposed on the colonists, and the arrogance of King George in setting terms with the Continental Congress.  Adams ultimately became the strongest advocate in the continental congress for secession from the crown.  During and after the war, Adams served as an ambassador of the United States in Europe, and was eventually received by King George as a representative of the United States.  While other men near him had more vision, leadership, ambition, and charisma, Adams employed his intelligence and deep wells of character to the American cause.

Offline Chalenge

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Re: John Adams series on HBO
« Reply #29 on: October 22, 2009, 02:03:18 PM »
Wait a minute you missed one very important point. Jefferson was by law forbidden to free any slave that could not support themselves on their own and there was also a law forbidding the sale of slaves while under debt which Jefferson always was. This was because they were considered attached property under lean. Jefferson is the President that abolished the slave trade so overall  portraying him the way a few of you have is not very honest to the facts of history.
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