How does the F4U-1A beat the Spit 16

[BnZs]

At around  300 mph, the Hog out turn rates and turn radius's the 16,

This simply isn't true. Both airplanes being at 300mph, both airplanes are above corner speed and thus their turn rates are limited by pilot G tolerance, which of is the same for everyone in-game. (Neither airplane suffers from significant loss of control authority at 300mph IAS either.) The Corsair can dump E and get down to a more reasonable turning speed faster than the Spit though, that is not the same as sustaining a better rate or radius at 300mph IAS.

[BnZs]

I loved the Battle Stations episode on the F4U when the Marine pilot stated that the F4U was the first airplane to have one horsepower per pound... new one on me!  

It's ENGINE had one horsepower per pound I think... Theres all this airplane attached to it though...12,000 horsepower radial...what a concept.

[Noah17]

So if we're over 300 the guy that turns better on the edge of blackout wins?....If we're both trying to turn.....

[thorsim]

i'm thinking the opposite the guy who preserves his energy better wins, each plane would do this different so i think it is as per usual a contest of wills and the guy that forces his fight on the other guy better wins ...

usually ...

i know ...

duh !!!


 

So if we're over 300 the guy that turns better on the edge of blackout wins?....If we're both trying to turn.....

[Noir]

This simply isn't true. Both airplanes being at 300mph, both airplanes are above corner speed and thus their turn rates are limited by pilot G tolerance, which of is the same for everyone in-game. (Neither airplane suffers from significant loss of control authority at 300mph IAS either.) The Corsair can dump E and get down to a more reasonable turning speed faster than the Spit though, that is not the same as sustaining a better rate or radius at 300mph IAS.

that leaves high speed roll rate then...but the spit16 rolls like a 190 so.....at that point you drop engine power, put the gear down, stick stir, and pray for the best

[Saxman]

Any rudder-assisted maneuvers you can think of are your friend. The F4U has an advantage in that department due to the sheer size of the thing. Keep your speed between 250-300, go nose-high in a yo-yo and kick the inside rudder to swing in on him. The end result is you're almost rolling over the top of him, and it surprises the hell out of those Spitty pilots with how quickly you can haul your nose around that way. You also don't bleed off E the same way as if you start trying to dump straight to flaps.

I'll keep on saying it: Effective use of rudder may be even MORE important to success in the F4U than flaps.

[AKDogg]

Any rudder-assisted maneuvers you can think of are your friend. The F4U has an advantage in that department due to the sheer size of the thing. Keep your speed between 250-300, go nose-high in a yo-yo and kick the inside rudder to swing in on him. The end result is you're almost rolling over the top of him, and it surprises the hell out of those Spitty pilots with how quickly you can haul your nose around that way. You also don't bleed off E the same way as if you start trying to dump straight to flaps.

I'll keep on saying it: Effective use of rudder may be even MORE important to success in the F4U than flaps.

Don't give the spit queens all our secrets, hehehehe.

[Anaxogoras]

I'll keep on saying it: Effective use of rudder may be even MORE important to success in the F4U than flaps.

How much whisky have you been drinking?

No other plane undergoes such an impressive transformation with the use of flaps.  It cannot be understated how effectively the F4U's flaps change it from a high-speed energy fighter into a knock-out stall fighter.  The F4U-1A and Spit XVI seem to equally share the distinction of being able to run-down and out-turn a big chunk of the planeset, but only the XVI can also out climb them and do the death-blossom maneuver.

[thorsim]

big rudder big flaps ...

a big plane changing direction hard bleeds a lot of energy a lot more than a significantly smaller plane for the same change of direction ...

if you are talking a low e top turn or a high yo yo with a ton of rudder that would seem to be a loosing battle hog vs.  spit ...

neither of which are rated as great turners in the real world vs. their contemporaries btw ...

t

[save]

spit16 will have problems following highspeed maneuvers .
And no, a spit16 is no match för a rolling 190a series specially at speed.

[Anaxogoras]

spit16 will have problems following highspeed maneuvers .
And no, a spit16 is no match för a rolling 190a series specially at speed.

XVI rolls better than the 190A series at low speed, and rolls almost as well all the way up to 400mph ias.

[BnZs]

a big plane changing direction hard bleeds a lot of energy a lot more than a significantly smaller plane for the same change of direction ...

Absolute size has nothing to do with energy bleed in turns. Lift/Drag efficiency is the key.

And the opinion seems to have been that the Spits were the best turners in the ETO except for possibly the Hurricanes. Whereas in AHII they are approached by the 109s.

For all the complaints about the Corsair's tiny turn radius with flaps, there remains the fact that it was designed to fly as slow as 75mph IAS, which indicates very effective increase in lift production with flaps. An airplane which can fly that slowly *will* have a tiny turn radius. In the PTO it was used as a high-speed fighter because a Zero will easily whomp a Corsair in a slow turning fight, flaps or no, and speed is the way to live. And in AHII a Zero easily whomps a Corsair in a slow turning flight, however the Hog is much more likely to be crossing swords with P-51s and Fw-190s than Zekes in the AHII MA, so you get what you get...the Hog used as turn fighter because a huge % of its opposition are superior E fighters/inferior angles fighters.

[Strip]

death-blossom maneuver

Care to elaborate?

[BrockS]

Oswald Boeleke and the Eight Rules of Air Combat

Basic tactics and rules established by Oswald Boeleke in 1916, however, have stood the test of time well. He gave new pilots eight rules of air combat to help them survive and win.

•Try to secure an advantage before you begin your attack. This advantage could be altitude, position, or surprise.
•Always carry through with an attack once you've started.
•Fire only at close range and when your opponent is properly in your sights.
•Always keep your eye on your opponent. Don't be deceived by ruses.Be prepared for your opponent to cut his speed to force you to overshoot.
•Always attack from behind your opponent.
•When attacked, turn into the attack; don't try to evade. This still holds true. Always be on the offensive.
•When over enemy lines, never forget your own line of retreat. When your fuel and/or weapons are low, start thinking about how you're going to get back to base.
•Attack in groups of four or six.

This is how you beat a Spit XVI in any plane. This applies mostly to the MA I would say. In a Co-E/ Co-alt situation dueling one v one, I would be of little help in giving advice for the F4U. I rugularly kill more Spit XVI's than most other aircraft in poorer turning planes. I do this by setting myself up with the advantage first and if I had accomplished this in an F4U I would dive and gather a little speed and as the Spit was trying to turn back into me (which they often do) I would visualize his flight path, pull low g to cut across it, unload and fire when the icon goes from 800 to 600. If you miss, blow through, at 1.5k use the F4U's great zoom in an immelman to gain alt and reverse back. The Spit has probably lost some E when he turned into you and now he is slower and you are above him....repeat (BnZ). Since the hog has few advantages you need to create them ahead of time. If he gets behind to, you are pretty much done as I believe that Spit XVI's are "magic" and do some amazing things sometimes.

If I were one on one in the DA, I would probably gain E and make all my passes long enough that I could safely extend to set up again and be very patient with low G manuvers when reversing my flight path for the next pass until I have spotted the opponent make a mistake giving me an advantage. As for turn fighting, it is not my forte' and I'm sure there are pilots here that can whip the pants off a XVI in a turn fight with a Hog. 

SEsaber, Screaming Eagles

[thorsim]

mass momentum and acceleration means more energy will be required(lost) changing the acceleration(turning) of a larger heavier object.  fancy flaps and fairie dust will not change that, no matter how bad the video gamers wish it would ...

at 75mph there is not a lot of energy left to be lost is there ...

Absolute size has nothing to do with energy bleed in turns. Lift/Drag efficiency is the key.

And the opinion seems to have been that the Spits were the best turners in the ETO except for possibly the Hurricanes. Whereas in AHII they are approached by the 109s.

For all the complaints about the Corsair's tiny turn radius with flaps, there remains the fact that it was designed to fly as slow as 75mph IAS, which indicates very effective increase in lift production with flaps. An airplane which can fly that slowly *will* have a tiny turn radius. In the PTO it was used as a high-speed fighter because a Zero will easily whomp a Corsair in a slow turning fight, flaps or no, and speed is the way to live. And in AHII a Zero easily whomps a Corsair in a slow turning flight, however the Hog is much more likely to be crossing swords with P-51s and Fw-190s than Zekes in the AHII MA, so you get what you get...the Hog used as turn fighter because a huge % of its opposition are superior E fighters/inferior angles fighters.