Author Topic: The Worst FSO I have ever been in  (Read 2293 times)

Offline Shifty

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Re: The Worst FSO I have ever been in
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2009, 06:46:24 AM »
Dont feel to bad, both fram 1 and 3 we were out number 3 to 1.  You just take it as it is.

You guys escorted the B5Ns to A37, you had 13 Zeke pilots. VMF-251 and VF-17 were the CAP for A-37. VMF-251 had 6 pilots VF-17 had 8 that's 14 total.
We engaged you just a few moments before VMF-251 not to mention some of our pilots were trying to knock out the B5Ns. That's hardly three to one odds.
Your math is as bad as your writing Oak. ;)

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"Haji may have blown my legs off but I'm still a stud"~ SPC Thomas Vandeventer Delta1/5 1st CAV

Offline DCCBOSS

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Re: The Worst FSO I have ever been in
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2009, 07:51:57 AM »
Chill out, I had noticed being one of the Zeke's that the B17,s were shooting at, seemed to be long range at the attacking planes, maybe poor planning on that planes capabilities, also knowing that a Zeke can out turn a P40, tactics should have been a boom and zoom approach, I seen plenty of P40's trying to turn fight which ultimately caused their death. :headscratch:
This is just my perspective on the engagements, one more note we all have been on the disavantage side many times.  :joystick:
« Last Edit: November 21, 2009, 08:01:11 AM by DCCBOSS »
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Offline gusman

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Re: The Worst FSO I have ever been in
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2009, 07:58:39 AM »
I was the flight leader. It is all my fault and I am ashamed. I shall commit seppuku

Happy Thanksgiving Everybody!!  :banana:

gus-san

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Offline AKP

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Re: The Worst FSO I have ever been in
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2009, 08:09:10 AM »
Have to disagree on this one on my part.  While this is only my 3rd FSO, this one was the best of the 3 for our squad thus far.  Yes, we got slaughtered in Frame 1 in our B5N's.  Frame 2 we fared a better in the Zekes, but in Frame 3 we had total success on our mission with the B5N's. 

None of the planes we have flown in FSO are rides we use in the MA's... we just set aside time to practice in the DA, and in AvA on occasion to get familiar with them... and the aircraft we will be flying against.


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Offline Shifty

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Re: The Worst FSO I have ever been in
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2009, 08:12:16 AM »
I was the flight leader. It is all my fault and I am ashamed. I shall commit seppuku

Happy Thanksgiving Everybody!!  :banana:

gus-san

Here Gus use my pen knife.  :D

Have a great Thanksgiving yourself.

<S>

JG-11"Black Hearts"...nur die Stolzen, nur die Starken

"Haji may have blown my legs off but I'm still a stud"~ SPC Thomas Vandeventer Delta1/5 1st CAV

Offline TUK

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Re: The Worst FSO I have ever been in
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2009, 08:13:55 AM »
Not sure why he's griping...it's not like the B5Ns faired any better...it takes a larger number of Zekes to deal with B-17s and escorts than it does for P-40s against B5Ns.

Gotta play it smart...the P-40 has to boom n zoom against the Zeke...can't get slow, and if you never flew the M2 model of Zeke you would never know it's flimsy at high speeds where the P-40 can still maneuver. At 400 or less, the Zeke will fly apart if you have your 50 cal convergence set to 300.


He has griped every frame.  I think he needs a cic duty, and just putup or shut up...  :old:
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Offline Dadsguns

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Re: The Worst FSO I have ever been in
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2009, 08:42:29 AM »
  We all have our turn in the pickle barrel.

That about sums it all up.......   :old:


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Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: The Worst FSO I have ever been in
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2009, 09:20:09 AM »
Although I get sick of the complaining in the FSO forum, I am a little sympathetic to the OP because the A6M2 is outmatched against the P-40/F4F far more than any other asymmetrical matchup FSO runs.  So long as the Allied pilots refuse to turn with it and use hit and run tactics, the A6M2 is completely neutralized.
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Offline Fencer51

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Re: The Worst FSO I have ever been in
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2009, 10:05:14 AM »
Yeah doesn't a real war setup stink.  Maybe Baumer should have added the KI-84 to even it up some.   :rolleyes:

Btw Gava, nice 7 kills yesterday.  You seemed to do ok.  :D
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Offline 68Wooley

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Re: The Worst FSO I have ever been in
« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2009, 11:07:06 AM »
I don't know about the A6M2 being outclassed by the P-40. By the E model, yes certainly. The E model has the power to dictate the fight on its own terms and the fire power to end fights with a brief snapshot.

The B model on the other hand I don't think so. I spent 45 minutes in the DA with 68Cactus before last night trying to find an advantage the P-40B has over the Zero. The only thing going in its favor was the flimsy construction of the zero meaning its whole clip had a chance of taking down a bird. Once the Zero's cannon was expended, its was effectively done. However, the Zero out accelarated, out dove, out climbed and obviously out turned at all speeds the P40b can realistically maintain.

Boom and Zooming has been mentioned as the preffered approach to taking on Zekes, but that's kind of tough when you merge co-alt 50' below the alt-limit or are trying to engage or keep buffs alive. And once engaged, the P40B simply cannot maintain E or regain it fast enough to dictate the fight that way. Our only counter to all this was to accept you are going to get in a turn fight and to maintain tight unit cohesion so you always have a chance to turn into a buddy who can clear your tail. I believe this is all pretty true to reality where US pilots knew in a 1 v 1 against a Zeke, they were in trouble, but felt 2 or more cooperating planes could take on larger numbers of - on paper - superior Japanese aircraft.

It worked reasonably well in two frames (last week has been struck from the annuls of the 68th  ;)). However in both frames 1 and 2, whilst we scored kills, we were eventually all but wiped out because we were unable to disengage and eventualy pinned down by successive waves of zekes arriving.

Offline Chalenge

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Re: The Worst FSO I have ever been in
« Reply #25 on: November 21, 2009, 11:26:35 AM »
I think it was great fun and even when I was slaughtered and heavily outnumbered it was more fun than the arena.

I would like to see the plane set be more true to history but when we have to make do with what there is...
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Offline Boxboy

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Re: The Worst FSO I have ever been in
« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2009, 11:46:26 AM »
I don't know about the A6M2 being outclassed by the P-40. By the E model, yes certainly. The E model has the power to dictate the fight on its own terms and the fire power to end fights with a brief snapshot.

The B model on the other hand I don't think so. I spent 45 minutes in the DA with 68Cactus before last night trying to find an advantage the P-40B has over the Zero. The only thing going in its favor was the flimsy construction of the zero meaning its whole clip had a chance of taking down a bird. Once the Zero's cannon was expended, its was effectively done. However, the Zero out accelarated, out dove, out climbed and obviously out turned at all speeds the P40b can realistically maintain.

Boom and Zooming has been mentioned as the preffered approach to taking on Zekes, but that's kind of tough when you merge co-alt 50' below the alt-limit or are trying to engage or keep buffs alive. And once engaged, the P40B simply cannot maintain E or regain it fast enough to dictate the fight that way. Our only counter to all this was to accept you are going to get in a turn fight and to maintain tight unit cohesion so you always have a chance to turn into a buddy who can clear your tail. I believe this is all pretty true to reality where US pilots knew in a 1 v 1 against a Zeke, they were in trouble, but felt 2 or more cooperating planes could take on larger numbers of - on paper - superior Japanese aircraft.

It worked reasonably well in two frames (last week has been struck from the annuls of the 68th  ;)). However in both frames 1 and 2, whilst we scored kills, we were eventually all but wiped out because we were unable to disengage and eventualy pinned down by successive waves of zekes arriving.
Check the charts the P-40B is 20 mph faster at every alt until 22K, and the zeke is a Ronson it lites first time every time
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Offline Chapel

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Re: The Worst FSO I have ever been in
« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2009, 11:51:45 AM »
I thought this FSO was a ton of fun, and a real challenge. Different elements made it unpredictable and kept us on our toes.
The P-40's seemed to be quicker and if flown creatively, provided a real challenge and difficult task to deal with. Once our guys forced the fight below our high cover, we managed to get an advantage.
But it's a tough setup, trying to decide to attack great big flying fortresses of deathstar proportions, or deal with the escorts. Conversely, same goes true for the allies taking on the dive bombers. Do you try and get the jump on em, or take out the escorts first.

Either way, we had a blast, and it was great working with the squads assigned our area of operations!
<S> to the WD40 and 334th Eagles for outstanding work this frame!

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Offline CVA

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Re: The Worst FSO I have ever been in
« Reply #28 on: November 21, 2009, 12:12:04 PM »
Box, it's not the speed. the A6M-2 out turns the P-40 and has a better gun package. I few the Zeak last night, and no problems handing the P-40s even though they out numbered us. My problem was the B-17, one blast from those fifty's while diving on them and it was over in a second. No, I think the Zeak out classed the P-40B without a problem, as long as you stayed high and committed to a turn fight and did not attempt to boom and zoom with them.  Just my opinion..CVA
« Last Edit: November 21, 2009, 12:14:06 PM by CVA »
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Offline Strip

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Re: The Worst FSO I have ever been in
« Reply #29 on: November 21, 2009, 12:15:15 PM »
My escort and another squadron were hit so hard that on my second mission I only had 3-4 guys escorting me.

We rolled with about 25-30 P-40's altogether....

Strip