Whistle blowing on Global Warming

[Anaxogoras]

On this bolded point I coud not disagree more.  The student peers of a community junior college are much more likely to come from all walks of life with vast life skills and experience than students of a four year university whom are there right out of high school on mom and dad's dime.

Experiences differ widely, I guess.  What I experienced in Junior college was that along with the young do-nothings, the older students were equally apathetic about required courses that did not pertain to their area of study, or wanted to talk about nothing except themselves.  My experience at a four year university was the exact opposite.

Anyway, we're way off track now, aren't we.

[CAP1]

Experiences differ widely, I guess.  What I experienced in Junior college was that along with the young do-nothings, the older students were equally apathetic about required courses that did not pertain to their area of study, or wanted to talk about nothing except themselves.  My experience at a four year university was the exact opposite.

Anyway, we're way off track now, aren't we.

bolded,,,,,,,that's simply human nature.

[Widewing]

CAP, Widewing, and assorted others, have I been trolling and attention seeking?  (I mean this seriously!)

-Penguin

No. I haven't seen you do this at all....


My regards,

Widewing

[Penguin]

Thanks Widewing!

Sorry anax, I don't want to make you cringe, but if you dislike it, can you refer me to anyone here that can teach me a little bit about debate and the like?  I don't know how far I've come, and how far I've yet to go.  College, that's a long way away. 

-Penguin

[Anaxogoras]

Thanks Widewing!

Sorry anax, I don't want to make you cringe, but if you dislike it, can you refer me to anyone here that can teach me a little bit about debate and the like?  I don't know how far I've come, and how far I've yet to go.  College, that's a long way away. 

-Penguin

My wife used to teach critical thinking with this book: http://www.amazon.com/Logic-Real-Arguments-Alec-Fisher/dp/0521654815/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1266379108&sr=8-1

[CAP1]

some may find this interesting.....from another board......


once again, not co2, or anything man made. veeely interesting......

http://www.whoi.edu/page.do?pid=7545&tid=282&cid=69134&ct=162

[Angus]

Angus, local climates change. They can vary at the limits of the norm. Whether it's warming or cooling, man is powerless to change that. Rather than waste trillions attempting to prevent something out of our control, the resources need to be spent adapting to the changes. Climate is never truly static.

Adapt or die... A basic rule of nature.


My regards,

Widewing

Round we go.
We know that mankind can change climate. In a flash, by going into a total nuke war.
However it's must tougher to say what our daily activities do. But here goes:
We know we can change and have changed the surface and vegetation of our planet by quite some measure. And we know as well, that capturing warmth is related to the surface.
We also know that we can and have changed the composition of the atmosphere by some bit, and we steadily carry on. And we do know, that the composition of the gases in our atmosphere does affect the temperature.
All we have done has a push towards causing warming. It is but a question of by how much and not if.
Sadly, this has gone into the trenches of propoganda, fake, paranoia, denialism, populism and money grabbing.
In the meantime, guys like myself, who is very dependant on both weather and climate, try to conclude something from our own heads.  And the "local" climate I am looking into is on a very BIG "local" area.
BTW, GW would not leat to every zone on the earth warming.
So, I do hope that the measurements carry on, and some real truth will see the daylight.
Meanwhile, I look forward to growing rapeseed for oil, and Exxon gets the drill-grease ready for new ventures in new ice-free zones.

[Penguin]

My wife used to teach critical thinking with this book: http://www.amazon.com/Logic-Real-Arguments-Alec-Fisher/dp/0521654815/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1266379108&sr=8-1

Looks like a good read, and cheap too!  Eventually I'll have to practice with someone though.  Hey, at least I have a book to study from!

-Penguin

[Kev367th]

There are multiple problems at the moment -
a) None of the models predicted the last 15 years cooling, cooling that is admitted by Phil Jones.
b) None of the models can predict any other earlier periods of warming in the temp record, warming that is in the same scale as now. (this current warming is not unprecedented in the temp record)
c) The AR4 report from the IPCC is slowly being picked apart.
d) Cap and Trade, Carbon trading et all will do nothing for the climate, what is will do is make a small minority a great deal of money.
e) Temperature station siting is laughable, the majority not meeting standards.
f) For peer reviewed read 'Pal/mate reviewed'.
g) No account for changes in land use. If I asphalt over a large area with a thermometer nearby, temp will rise. But not due to CO2. Remember Phil Jones claimed UHI effect was "negligable".
h) The majority of the rise in temps is night time temps, UHI effect. Un-massaged rural data shows little difference to earlier records.
i) Unaccounted for or unexplained massaging of data.

Not expecting much from any of the investigations but a paper over the cracks whitewash, unfortunately.

Its a mess.

[Penguin]

Well if it wasn't, the whole thing would be settled then, wouldn't it?

-Penguin

[Angus]

Kev:
"Cap and Trade, Carbon trading et all will do nothing for the climate, what is will do is make a small minority a great deal of money."
Exactly what I am afraid of. Not to mention the focus point of environmental issues going into just THAT.

As for this:
"Temperature station siting is laughable, the majority not meeting standards."

- Firstly it does not explain changes in those exact spots, since many of them have been in the same place for a very long time.
- Secondly, these numbers are now being looked into alongside the sattellite data, which is a very interesting field indeed.

[Angus]

Fresh data.
Notice that those who debate GW occuring the most, mainly live in a "cold" pocket. This January actually ranks as one of the top ten hottest...ever, but take measurements that suggest warming with a grain of salt, right?

[CAP1]

Fresh data.
Notice that those who debate GW occuring the most, mainly live in a "cold" pocket. This January actually ranks as one of the top ten hottest...ever, but take measurements that suggest warming with a grain of salt, right?
(Image removed from quote.)

just an fyi.......from what i can see on that chart......new jersey is shown aa being in the "hot" area.

it's colder here than it has been in the last few years.

[Penguin]

See the big picture though, it could have been warming before.  And can we get that in a more eye-friendly picture, please?  It makes my eyes sore to look at it.

-Penguin

[sluggish]

Fresh data.
Notice that those who debate GW occuring the most, mainly live in a "cold" pocket. This January actually ranks as one of the top ten hottest...ever, but take measurements that suggest warming with a grain of salt, right?
(Image removed from quote.)

Funny... That chart DOES NOT correlate with your own experience, does it?