Whistle blowing on Global Warming

[MORAY37]

[batch]

just out of curiousity........ why are we seeing annual summaries for southwest michigan? I guess my map must be as skewed as some of these ficticious charts

[CAP1]

i like it when people try to tell me that what i see out the window matters not, as there is printed data showing that i am wrong.

 it shows that i didn't really need to wear 2 days worth of clothes each day this winter. it shows that my oil bill shouldn't have gone up(gonna call the oil company and tell em the gave me too much oil). it shows that we haven't had 4+ feet of snow here. it shows that my waste oil heater at the shop shouldn;t have been on for most of the last couple months(gonna hafta have it checked, as it has burned about 500 gallons so far, since november)

 so.........well........i dunno............

[Angus]

Check the map and data again.
30 years January average vs this January, and it is not too fine in resolution.
How many of you remember January 1980? or 1982? I do
And guess what, - my powerbill is going up to. Guess that proves global cooling huh? Can't have anything to do with the unit price rising?
And the factor that affects the heating apart from that, but unrelated with temperature? Well, - a little wind will do quite a lot

[Penguin]

Dang, so simple but yet so difficult!  (Curse your ingenuity  ).

Anyway... personal tastes, wind, aging (you and heating equipment), unit cost, those all affect your powerbill.  It's not

 y=mx+b relation

 y-y₁=m(x-x₁ ) relation, or even an

 ax+by=c relation

There are too many variables for this to be emperical.  With just those you would have an (v,w,x,y,z) plot going on, that's more than the 3D's that you can see!  (I'm sure that you could graph it though)  Please do not cite anecdotal, highly variable evidence to prove a claim that streches across the globe.  If you want to use home heating, please have at least a state average of bbl. burned over a long period (20+ years is the minimum), and this data should be per capita.

-Penguin

[CAP1]

Check the map and data again.
30 years January average vs this January, and it is not too fine in resolution.
How many of you remember January 1980? or 1982? I do
And guess what, - my powerbill is going up to. Guess that proves global cooling huh? Can't have anything to do with the unit price rising?
And the factor that affects the heating apart from that, but unrelated with temperature? Well, - a little wind will do quite a lot

i remember winter of 1980 fairly well. i spent a lot of time doing donuts in one of these in the parking lot of grants in clementon nj.
.
 
 sometimes i wasn't able to get that one, so i used this one...although ours had a black vinyl roof.


 it was my first year driving, as i got my dl in april of 1979.

funny thing about that.....back then, there seemed to be less incidents and accidents in the snow than there are now. and there were very very few front wheel drive cars.

power bill going up? i never said my bill went up. i said my usage went up. when my oil gets delivered to my home, they leave a reciept, stating how many gallons of oil i got. so...when i see (for instance) 200 gallons delivered this month, vs the historical average of (for instance again) 100 gallons, yet my thermostat is set the same......my house hasn't changed in the last 20 years(that i know of) then i must in all obviousness be using more oil.

[MORAY37]

i like it when people try to tell me that what i see out the window matters not, as there is printed data showing that i am wrong.

 it shows that i didn't really need to wear 2 days worth of clothes each day this winter. it shows that my oil bill shouldn't have gone up(gonna call the oil company and tell em the gave me too much oil). it shows that we haven't had 4+ feet of snow here. it shows that my waste oil heater at the shop shouldn;t have been on for most of the last couple months(gonna hafta have it checked, as it has burned about 500 gallons so far, since november)

 so.........well........i dunno............

Cap...THIS WINTER, in your locale has been under what the average was.  Being that I used to live not so far from you, I remember the early 80's where every winter December and January had temps in the single digits as highs.  It hasn't been like that since.

His statement was that the last decade has had brutal winters.  I proved that he was wrong, by empirical means, not personal de facto observations.

[sluggish]

Check the map and data again.
30 years January average vs this January, and it is not too fine in resolution.
How many of you remember January 1980? or 1982? I do
And guess what, - my powerbill is going up to. Guess that proves global cooling huh? Can't have anything to do with the unit price rising?
And the factor that affects the heating apart from that, but unrelated with temperature? Well, - a little wind will do quite a lot

Never said anything about my power bill.  Of course my power bill has nearly doubled in the last ten years because the cost of energy has risen.  That does not account for that fact that each of the three years since we moved into the new house our usage has increased significantly; six hundred gallons in 08, eight hundred gallons in 09 and I've just called to have the eight hundredth gallon delivered next week.  With a good majority of winter left I will most probably have to have another two hundred gallon drop before the weather breaks in the spring.

[sluggish]

Cap...THIS WINTER, in your locale has been under what the average was.  Being that I used to live not so far from you, I remember the early 80's where every winter December and January had temps in the single digits as highs.  It hasn't been like that since.

His statement was that the last decade has had brutal winters.  I proved that he was wrong, by empirical means, not personal de facto observations.

Please inform my energy provider of their mistake.

[RTHolmes]

why on earth would you want to try to measure temps using such an abstract indicator as heating fuel use? when you can measure temps using ... I dunno ... a thermometer? 

[MORAY37]

Please inform my energy provider of their mistake.

So you're proven wrong and get snarky.  Typical.

[Angus]

Cap:
"funny thing about that.....back then, there seemed to be less incidents and accidents in the snow than there are now. and there were very very few front wheel drive cars."
Same here. However, in the old days everyone had quite some snow-driving time under the belt, while nowadays people have had their licence dor years and years and hardly ever driven in snow...experience does matter...but is hard to acquire when there is no snow

[saggs]

I remember the early 80's where every winter December and January had temps in the single digits as highs.  It hasn't been like that since.

Is that due to global warming?  Because some also claim the current rather harsh winter in NA is due to global warming.  Which is it?

They say the glaciers on Kilimanjaro are receding due to global warming.  Well glaciers recession is caused by lack of precipitation, then they tell us global warming will cause more precipitation because warmer air holds more moisture.  Ummm... OK  

They blamed big hurricanes 4-5 years ago on global warming, because the warmer air puts more energy into the storms.  Then last year when we had NO hurricanes, it was because of global warming causing the warm sea currents to shift.  

Bill Nye the Science Guy was on some pundit show last week, and I kid you not, in the same sentence he claimed that the big storms and record snowfall in the eastern US, AND the lack of snow at the Olympics in B.C. were both caused by global warming.  

Then last week Phil Jones admits to the BBC that there has been no warming since 1995, and the data going back 1,000s of years they based their research on is not reliable.

So to summarize:

Warmer = Global warming
Not warmer = Global warming
Cooler = Global warming
More precipitation = Global warming
Less precipitation = Global warming
More hurricanes = Global warming
Less hurricanes = Global warming

It seem that anything but perfect 72°F, partly cloudy, 3mph breeze weather is now blamed on global warming.

The weather has always been volatile.

The climate has always been changing, IT'S WHAT CLIMATE DOES!!  

The Great Basin were I live used to be tropical, I can go out and find fossils of sea life here.  Did prehistoric creatures driving their SUVs cause the climate change that changed the Great Basin from an ocean, to a tropical rain forest, to a desert? (and a couple ice ages fit in there somewhere too.)

How many ice ages have there been?  What caused the global warming that melted all that ice?

What about the medieval warm period, surely that was caused by all those serf pig farmers putting out methane.

We are not causing climate change, we are witnessing and recording it.  Claiming that humans are causing the natural cycles of the climate by our actions, is like claiming we cause the sun to rise and set by waking up and going to bed.  The actions coincide, it MUST be cause and effect right?!?

I wouldn't get so worked up about this if it weren't for the politicians who are trying to funnel trillions of $$$ worth of policy and taxes worldwide based on these very dubious claims.

[CAP1]

Is that due to global warming?  Because some also claim the current rather harsh winter in NA is due to global warming.  Which is it?

They say the glaciers on Kilimanjaro are receding due to global warming.  Well glaciers recession is caused by lack of precipitation, then they tell us global warming will cause more precipitation because warmer air holds more moisture.  Ummm... OK  

They blamed big hurricanes 4-5 years ago on global warming, because the warmer air puts more energy into the storms.  Then last year when we had NO hurricanes, it was because of global warming causing the warm sea currents to shift.  

Bill Nye the Science Guy was on some pundit show last week, and I kid you not, in the same sentence he claimed that the big storms and record snowfall in the eastern US, AND the lack of snow at the Olympics in B.C. were both caused by global warming.  

Then last week Phil Jones admits to the BBC that there has been no warming since 1995, and the data going back 1,000s of years they based their research on is not reliable.

So to summarize:

Warmer = Global warming
Not warmer = Global warming
Cooler = Global warming
More precipitation = Global warming
Less precipitation = Global warming
More hurricanes = Global warming
Less hurricanes = Global warming

It seem that anything but perfect 72°F, partly cloudy, 3mph breeze weather is now blamed on global warming.

The weather has always been volatile.

The climate has always been changing, IT'S WHAT CLIMATE DOES!!  

The Great Basin were I live used to be tropical, I can go out and find fossils of sea life here.  Did prehistoric creatures driving their SUVs cause the climate change that changed the Great Basin from an ocean, to a tropical rain forest, to a desert? (and a couple ice ages fit in there somewhere too.)

How many ice ages have there been?  What caused the global warming that melted all that ice?

What about the medieval warm period, surely that was caused by all those serf pig farmers putting out methane.

We are not causing climate change, we are witnessing and recording it.  Claiming that humans are causing the natural cycles of the climate by our actions, is like claiming we cause the sun to rise and set by waking up and going to bed.  The actions coincide, it MUST be cause and effect right?!?

I wouldn't get so worked up about this if it weren't for the politicians who are trying to funnel trillions of $$$ worth of policy and taxes worldwide based on these very dubious claims.

bolded line. this is the only reason we are being constantly inundated with global warming crap.

[Penguin]

I believe that what saggs said has been attributed to geologic shifts in the earth.  The tropical basin argument is absurd, that change happened over hundreds of thousands of years.  Now what we have seen here is a sudden uptake in the temperature over the last two hundred years.  That uptake corresponds to the industrial revolution.  To make the argument that we can't change the climate because it can change on its own is a false dichotomy, since neither precludes the other from being true if true. 

Now as to the question of the medieval warm period, I'm not able to reason that one off.  But how long were the middle ages?  Fall of Rome to Renissance.  That was from the 400's to the 1500's, that was 900 years.  We've seen an uptake in less than one quarter of that time.  Volcanic activity was also poorly recorded since we didn't know that much of our world existed, so just about anything that they couldn't see could have blasted the thermostat to the max.

-Penguin