Author Topic: Zalman liquid cooling  (Read 1075 times)

Offline Ruler2

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Zalman liquid cooling
« on: December 06, 2009, 11:19:46 AM »
Well, I've been lookin around online and I found some Zalman reserators at a GREAT price, I was just wondering, how much more performance would I get out of the Reserator 2 instead of the 1V2 or XT, if there's not a huge difference between them and they all give me a nice temp drop, then I think I'll go ahead and get the cheapest one, I just don't know how the 3 stack up against each other in cooling efficiency.

Offline skribetm

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Re: Zalman liquid cooling
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2009, 03:19:23 PM »
generally, all in one watercooling systems do not give you similar(or even close) performance/dollar to custom, user assembled set-ups.

for user feedback, see: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/search.php?searchid=19012776

i suggest thermochill rads.
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/thpa420ra.html

xspc laing res.
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/xsacreforlad.html

swiftech mpc355/laing d5 pumps.
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/swiftechmcp355.html

tygon 7/16 tubing for clamp-less fits.
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/ty7id9odlatu.html

and depending on your cpu, a heatkiller rev. 3 cpu block.
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/waterblocks.html

dont forget to pick up 1/2 barbs. if you set this in a single loop, cool the cpu first, then the gpu.
but that thermochill will give you better temps and overclock than the zalman res.

good luck!  :aok


Offline TilDeath

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Re: Zalman liquid cooling
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2009, 04:02:43 PM »
A component based H20 systems will set you back between 350 and 400 dollars.  Skribetm likes a barb connection where as I prefer a compression fitting.  I agree on the 1/2 tubing, I like Fesser tubing and liquid.  Pumps, its your call.  Laing makes the pumps for Danger Den, Koolance, Swiftech and others.  Look for price since is varies by about 30 dollars from company to company for the exact same pump (different sticker is only change).  Look for waterblocks that are all metal, do not choose plastic here.  Acrilic resovours are the way to to.  When looking at Radiators, there are single, dual and triple pass available, the size of the radiator matters directly to its cooling performance.  If your going to be placing just your CPU in a look a dual is fine, add a GPU block and your need at least a double but better yet a triple.

Here is a pic of a dual loop system with three radiators all inside the case, a single, dual and triple.  This is an SLI setup.



« Last Edit: December 06, 2009, 04:05:39 PM by TilDeath »

Offline Ruler2

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Re: Zalman liquid cooling
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2009, 04:11:37 PM »
Wow, that's a nice piece of work there!  Are there any advantages/ disadvantages to having the radiators mounted inside the case? Would that not increase the system temp?

Offline Chalenge

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Re: Zalman liquid cooling
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2009, 04:16:42 PM »
TilDeath I am curious if you have ever seen an air conditioner dedicated to a closed cabinet system? Im wondering if it would cause any issues or why you dont see more of that sort of thing over water?
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Offline TilDeath

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Re: Zalman liquid cooling
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2009, 07:05:11 PM »
TilDeath I am curious if you have ever seen an air conditioner dedicated to a closed cabinet system? Im wondering if it would cause any issues or why you dont see more of that sort of thing over water?
Yes they use them.  They are called Phase changers (OCZ's here http://www.ocztechnology.com/products/cooling_products/ocz_cryo_z)  They are extreme coolers and in most cases only used for cooling of the CPU (like -30c).  I have seen guys use old freezers having copper tubing looped within the freezer itself to get max chill to the liquid.  I wish I could find some of my old stuff.  I had a link where a guy literally dug up his whole backyard and buried the piping in the ground as a radiator, using the low ground temp as a cooling system, then running the pipes to his computer room then quick connect/disconnects to link to the system.  I have seen a system that is submersed in mineral spirits and used.  The hard drive and DVD were mounted outside the liquid, since this hampers the spinning of the trays or media.

Unless your into extreme overclocking or your computer room has higher then normal ambient temps, in most cases H20 or extreme cooling is not needed.

TD

Offline TilDeath

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Re: Zalman liquid cooling
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2009, 07:10:14 PM »
Wow, that's a nice piece of work there!  Are there any advantages/ disadvantages to having the radiators mounted inside the case? Would that not increase the system temp?
Mounted inside the case is a much cleaner install and quieter.  Radiators need airflow to cool the liquid within.  Increased temps when mounting within the case are not much of a difference, maybe 3 to 5c higher but your components are 10 to 15c cooler.  Go figure.  You still need fans bringing cooler outside case air into the case for cooling no matter if it is H20 or just air.

TD

Offline Chalenge

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Re: Zalman liquid cooling
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2009, 09:42:33 PM »
Not exactly what I meant. I was considering building an addition to my desk that would house an air conditioning unit that only control the temperature of one compartment of the desk itself (where the computer is). That way the system itself is still cooled on air but the air itself would be lower than the rest of the house.
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Offline 1701E

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Re: Zalman liquid cooling
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2009, 09:59:15 PM »
Not exactly what I meant. I was considering building an addition to my desk that would house an air conditioning unit that only control the temperature of one compartment of the desk itself (where the computer is). That way the system itself is still cooled on air but the air itself would be lower than the rest of the house.


So...something like this?

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Offline Kermit de frog

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Re: Zalman liquid cooling
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2009, 10:09:54 PM »








The above pictures show my older pump, which has been replaced with a larger version.
Room: 79 F
HD: 82 F
CPU: 84 F
Case: 93 F
GPU: 110 F

The cooler the room temp, the more efficient the cooling system becomes.  (i.e. core temps will equal room temps if room drops to 68 F)
Max CPU temp with AH loaded, 103 F with case increasing to 100 F and GPU up to 125 F if room is below 80 F.

CPU was 2.1GHz, now 3.0GHz
FSB now @ 1400MHz (was 1066MHz)
Memory under clocked to 700MHz
GPU overclocked to 635MHz, from Factory OC of 565MHz

Cooling provided by Thermaltake.  Seems this brand has a very bad image when it comes to making liquid cooling parts.  I've modified the radiator by placing 2 fans, using a push/pull design maximizing airflow through the radiator, while also using an 80mm fan on the side of the case to provide cooler outside case air to enter the radiator enclosed in the case.  I use a 120mm fan to cool Hard drives and I also use 2 small fans to cool the memory.  I've added green lights to the resorvoir to allow me to easily see the coolant level in the reservoir.  This setup requires coolant to be added every 6 months to maintain a high level of coolant, which will minimize the amount of air bubbles collecting in the pump, which will cause pump failure.  I plan on creating to allow a quicker way to add coolant, because the current process takes me 30-40 minutes.  I'd like it to just take <5 minutes.

  When my last pump stopped working, the temperatures began to rise over a period of 1 hour.  Although my CPU temperaure never reached the thermal shutdown limit, it was my GPU that was the hotest link.  It heated the coolant which then broke through the seal and exploded through the waterblock of the GPU.  Steam engulfed the entire case with making a loud sizzling noise, much like an overheated car. :)  Then sparkes occurred from the pump and it's the wires fried adding a great smell to the room.  My system then shut down.  The coolant was not conductive, so no damage to the motherboard or the cards below the video card were damaged.  After inspecting the GPU waterblock, I found that the screws just needed to be tightened and after replacing the pump, all was well.  Only damage encountered was to the video card, as one DVI port no longer functions with all colors, so I use the other DVI port.  My PC was essentially a brick until a replacement pump, which no local store stocked, arrived 4 days later.

  In conclusion, Ruler2, try to think about the initial cost, and the cost to maintain the system, both in downtime and annual costs.  Ensure you have a BIOS, driver or some small application that can monitor CPU/GPU temps and perform a system shutdown automatically.  Have fun with finding creative ways to improve whatever kit you buy, or if you buy the parts individually.  Also with lower temps, you can decrease voltages to CPU with allows even a great reduction in temperatures.  I also use my vid driver to only enable overclocking when certain apps are running which means my GPU temps drop even more when doing everyday chores with my PC.  Lots to learn and experiment with once you go to liquid cooling.
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Offline TilDeath

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Re: Zalman liquid cooling
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2009, 10:27:04 PM »
Not exactly what I meant. I was considering building an addition to my desk that would house an air conditioning unit that only control the temperature of one compartment of the desk itself (where the computer is). That way the system itself is still cooled on air but the air itself would be lower than the rest of the house.
Good idea, only thing that comes to mind is condensation from the cool air in the compartment and the warm air outside getting in.  That would be my only worry

Offline Masherbrum

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Re: Zalman liquid cooling
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2009, 10:27:25 PM »
Kermit, I had an X-Cruiser and if you went to an NZXT Tempest, your temperatures would drop several degrees from the added airflow.  
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Offline TilDeath

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Re: Zalman liquid cooling
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2009, 10:27:44 PM »
(Image removed from quote.)
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The above pictures show my older pump, which has been replaced with a larger version.
Room: 79 F
HD: 82 F
CPU: 84 F
Case: 93 F
GPU: 110 F

The cooler the room temp, the more efficient the cooling system becomes.  (i.e. core temps will equal room temps if room drops to 68 F)
Max CPU temp with AH loaded, 103 F with case increasing to 100 F and GPU up to 125 F if room is below 80 F.

CPU was 2.1GHz, now 3.0GHz
FSB now @ 1400MHz (was 1066MHz)
Memory under clocked to 700MHz
GPU overclocked to 635MHz, from Factory OC of 565MHz

Cooling provided by Thermaltake.  Seems this brand has a very bad image when it comes to making liquid cooling parts.  I've modified the radiator by placing 2 fans, using a push/pull design maximizing airflow through the radiator, while also using an 80mm fan on the side of the case to provide cooler outside case air to enter the radiator enclosed in the case.  I use a 120mm fan to cool Hard drives and I also use 2 small fans to cool the memory.  I've added green lights to the resorvoir to allow me to easily see the coolant level in the reservoir.  This setup requires coolant to be added every 6 months to maintain a high level of coolant, which will minimize the amount of air bubbles collecting in the pump, which will cause pump failure.  I plan on creating to allow a quicker way to add coolant, because the current process takes me 30-40 minutes.  I'd like it to just take <5 minutes.

  When my last pump stopped working, the temperatures began to rise over a period of 1 hour.  Although my CPU temperaure never reached the thermal shutdown limit, it was my GPU that was the hotest link.  It heated the coolant which then broke through the seal and exploded through the waterblock of the GPU.  Steam engulfed the entire case with making a loud sizzling noise, much like an overheated car. :)  Then sparkes occurred from the pump and it's the wires fried adding a great smell to the room.  My system then shut down.  The coolant was not conductive, so no damage to the motherboard or the cards below the video card were damaged.  After inspecting the GPU waterblock, I found that the screws just needed to be tightened and after replacing the pump, all was well.  Only damage encountered was to the video card, as one DVI port no longer functions with all colors, so I use the other DVI port.  My PC was essentially a brick until a replacement pump, which no local store stocked, arrived 4 days later.

  In conclusion, Ruler2, try to think about the initial cost, and the cost to maintain the system, both in downtime and annual costs.  Ensure you have a BIOS, driver or some small application that can monitor CPU/GPU temps and perform a system shutdown automatically.  Have fun with finding creative ways to improve whatever kit you buy, or if you buy the parts individually.  Also with lower temps, you can decrease voltages to CPU with allows even a great reduction in temperatures.  I also use my vid driver to only enable overclocking when certain apps are running which means my GPU temps drop even more when doing everyday chores with my PC.  Lots to learn and experiment with once you go to liquid cooling.
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Offline Chalenge

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Re: Zalman liquid cooling
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2009, 12:15:49 AM »
Yes something like what 1701E drew up. I found an air conditioner that is a meere 12"x12"x15" that appears well suited for the job. Im wondering if I should cover the computer case inside or outside or both in case of condensation or if it would even be a problem with the rest of the house being air conditioned already? I dont expect super cold conditions because I know that no matter what the BTU rating there is only so much a unit can do but if you have heard of anyone doing this? Let me know please.  :D
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Offline TilDeath

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Re: Zalman liquid cooling
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2009, 12:50:59 AM »
Go to Lowes or Home Depot and get the house styrefoam panel and use that to line the inside the cabinet cut as close to fit as you can then caulk it and use foam on the door panel and you should have a good mini fridge there.  I would run it fora day or two before starting the system but the system in place and see if you get condensation.

TD