Game is reaching new lows.

[Bronk]

You get better at dogfighting by surviving the same way you get better at surviving by dogfighting.

[Motherland]

?
The skills translate. The skills you need to survive are the same skills you need to dogfight/ furball well. E management, pushing your plane to the edge, judging angles and E. The scenarios you do them are different and translation can be difficult but the concepts are the same all around. Really the most difficult part is building up the discipline when going from furballing to trying to survive... IMO.

[Bronk]

IMO if you all you do is "one pass haul arse.". You learn nothing. No e management needed there, no acm, nothing.

Again you have to commit to a fight  to learn any of what you stated. That's why I get a chuckle any time I read a spit whine thread. The majority of noob spit pilots will stay and fight.They have to it's a spit.  While the majority of 51/dora/typhy ect ect ect will not.


EDIT: The committing to a fight is required to even train in the TA. If you do not engage, even the best trainer can not help you learn to fight better.

[Motherland]

IMO if you all you do is "one pass haul arse.". You learn nothing. No e management needed there, no acm, nothing.

Of course not, but the majority of people don't do that, and it is not at all what is being talked about in this thread.

Again you have to commit to a fight  to learn any of what you stated.

No, you don't. That might be an easier way to learn quickly, but all the styles of fighting, whether you're turning and burning or booming and zooming, require the same set of skills to perform effectively.

[Dadsguns]

IMO if you all you do is "one pass haul arse.". You learn nothing. No e management needed there, no acm, nothing.

Again you have to commit to a fight  to learn any of what you stated. That's why I get a chuckle any time I read a spit whine thread. The majority of noob spit pilots will stay and fight.They have to it's a spit.  While the majority of 51/dora/typhy ect ect ect will not.

   

There is no gun to my head either....  

[Bronk]

No, you don't.

LOL yes you do.  
See my edit. Why is it that they mock fight in RL? Is it so they can get better? Do they just practice one pass haul arse? Hmmm?

[Motherland]

If you find a cloud of red at 10k, whether you latch on to a single con, get tunnel vision and latch on to his six until you get picked, or you attempt to manipulate your energy and angles to stay out of reach of enemies while obtaining a firing solution, you're going to need to know how to judge E effectively, push your plane to it's limit, set up firing passes, be proficient in gunnery, manage SA, etc. etc. etc.

[Bronk]

If you find a cloud of red at 10k, whether you latch on to a single con, get tunnel vision and latch on to his six until you get picked, or you attempt to manipulate your energy and angles to stay out of reach of enemies while obtaining a firing solution, you're going to need to know how to judge E effectively, push your plane to it's limit, set up firing passes, be proficient in gunnery, manage SA, etc. etc. etc.

What you are describing is actually committing to a fight one way or another. Can't do that if you blow through the cloud and keep going now can you?
Train like you fight. Fight like you train.

[Motherland]

What you are describing is actually committing to a fight one way or another.

No it's not committing to a fight in any way shape or form. It's pure booming and zooming. The definition.
Again; to effectively boom and zoom you need the same skills as in any other style of fighting.

[Pieper]

This thread is lame

[Bronk]

No it's not committing to a fight in any way shape or form. It's pure booming and zooming. The definition.
Again; to effectively boom and zoom you need the same skills as in any other style of fighting.

vvvv

you attempt to manipulate your energy and angles to stay out of reach of enemies while obtaining a firing solution

You are most likely not going to get a solution if you don't commit. You may get lucky on an unwary target, that is all. To get a solution on a target who is watching you is going to take practice... lots of it.  Again your not going to get practice if you don't make the attempt at more than one pass per target. You are not going to learn E management if you don't ever expend any.

[Motherland]

You are most likely not going to get a solution if you don't commit. You may get lucky on an unwary target, that is all. To get a solution on a target who is watching you is going to take practice... lots of it.  Again your not going to get practice if you don't make the attempt at more than one pass per target. You are not going to learn E management if you don't ever expend any.

The only thing that you're proving with this post is that you have no experience/clue when it comes to boom and zooming. Which is perfectly fine if it's not your style of play but you shouldn't comment on it if you don't.
 

[Bronk]

The only thing that you're proving with this post is that you have no experience/clue when it comes to boom and zooming. Which is perfectly fine if it's not your style of play but you shouldn't comment on it if you don't.
 

I think you are using the wrong terminology my young friend. What you have been describing is E fighting not BnZ.
Your condescending tone in this last post is not becoming.
 Please don't make assumptions on something you have no idea about. I've been playing this type of game since 97 or so. While I'm not the best  I've done all aspects of what this type of game entails.

[Motherland]

I didn't mean to be condescending but I couldn't think of any other way to say it.
BnZ is E fighting just like anything else at one point or another.
You don't have to commit to effectively BnZ which is why it's so effective to use in a 1 vs many situation.
I should say that what I mean applies to many people in this thread demonizing an opposing style of flying as just flying in a lufbery or just one-pass-and-haul-assing. I love TnB in 1v1 engagements and BnZ'ing against large groups of enemies with the intention of surviving equally so it 'jerks my chain' I guess you would say to see either of these flying styles characterized as either 'just flying in circles' or 'just making a high speed pass and running', either of these characterizations I've seen several times througout the thread.

The  was meant to take the edge off as I really did mean that with the most respect, but it obviously still looks pretty bad

Reading the post again the language was a bit out of line & I'm definitely sorry for that.

[Steve]

The vets say they don't care about winning or losing, and all they want is a fun fight.

In that case, they are welcome to form a "squad of doom" or something, and always up from bases directly under attack from the enemy horde. I mean, upping from vulched bases, fighting against 5~10 to 1 odds, survivng the onslaught.. who cares if the K/D falls below 1.0 and you are shot down every 30 seconds? Would this not be the ultimate test of skill, wits, and luck? I mean it's got everything - evading enemy attack, neutralizing alt advantages, single-handedly killing multiple enemies, the vulchee breaking the vulch... wow! The ultimate adrenaline rush.. no boring alt grabbing, the fight begins the moment you spawn!

If they really like the "fun of combat", then they shouldn't have any problems enjoying a fight they are destined to lose, right?

Thank you for posting this.  I am utterly sick of the holier-than-thou types who complain about the way others choose to "fly". These so called leet pilots who "live for the fight" and somehow think their way is the superior way to fly or somehow requires more skill because they choose to fly in circles down low and get killed.  I don't care how they fly, but  that they somehow think their way requires more skill or that they are somehow more noble than some guy who chooses to hunt buffs or declines to get ganged.