Author Topic: Next scenario  (Read 4981 times)

Offline oneway

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Re: Next scenario
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2010, 10:58:16 PM »
Please avoid using bmp format for pictures.  JPG can be just fine.  PNG is much better than bmp if you must achieve maximum clarity.

The jpg's I end up with are less than resolute...in fact I find the gifs post back in Firefox with more clarity than the jpg's...

I only produce the bmp's for the end user to manipulate...as the bmp file format is the native image format for the windows operating system...

Thus...when I crank maps for others to use...I do it in the rawest sense...they can turn them into anything they want...and when it comes to converting from one image format to another...in the win OS...the best format to start with is the native format...BMP

As you are well aware...every time an image is converted its suffers..

I will leave the conversions to others...for images transfered and not posted on BBS...I will always include the raw BMP...at its highest clarity

In Fencers case he is embedding the images in an html output...It is up to him what format he chooses...

I never post bmp to the BBS unless its a clipboard map: 8 x 512x512

Oneway
« Last Edit: January 06, 2010, 11:08:41 PM by oneway »

Offline oneway

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Re: Next scenario
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2010, 11:05:48 PM »
whoops

Offline oneway

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Re: Next scenario
« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2010, 11:07:55 PM »
.

Offline Have

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Re: Next scenario
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2010, 03:18:21 AM »
As you are well aware...every time an image is converted its suffers..

Actually images do not suffer from conversion if one does not limit the amount of bits available for colors and does not use image formats with lossy compression. For example PNG is a very good format featuring lossless compression. So by using that the image will not loose any of its clarity, but it is in a much smaller size than in BMP format for example.

Offline Strip

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Re: Next scenario
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2010, 08:19:16 AM »
Actually images do not suffer from conversion if one does not limit the amount of bits available for colors and does not use image formats with lossy compression. For example PNG is a very good format featuring lossless compression. So by using that the image will not loose any of its clarity, but it is in a much smaller size than in BMP format for example.

To add to Have...

If you are using a software like Ultimate Paint or GIMP (both free btw) they have a slider for compression, thus allowing you to save and convert an image many times without losing clarity. When dealing with terrain files I often will use JPG for the 16384 pixel water images, using the smaller size is easier, and then convert it back to BMP in the final stages.

Strip

Offline oneway

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Re: Next scenario
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2010, 04:39:12 PM »
Actually images do not suffer from conversion if one does not limit the amount of bits available for colors and does not use image formats with lossy compression. For example PNG is a very good format featuring lossless compression. So by using that the image will not loose any of its clarity, but it is in a much smaller size than in BMP format for example.

Huh?

Convert the same file back and forth between two different formats...n times...it will most certainly degrade on each iteration...as the underlying converter is forced to make "assumptions" when translating...

This is the equivalent of making a photocopy of a photocopy n times for n-1...

If as you say PNG is a lossless format...then what better to start with when ConvertingTo.SomeOtherFormat than a 32b System.Drawing.Bitmap, the native format of the Win OS?

I will leave the conversion to others to suit their needs...and I don't post BMP's to the BBS because of their size and bandwidth issues...that's a no brainier...

However in the future...I will try the PNG's for BBS images, instead of my typical gif....as long as the file size is less than a gif size, and the quality is as good or better.


Oneway

Offline Strip

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Re: Next scenario
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2010, 04:42:08 PM »
Oneway,

The simple act of conversion should not degrade the quality in terms of normal daily use, its when compression (.jpg is famous for this) takes place that you lose detail.

Strip
« Last Edit: January 07, 2010, 04:45:58 PM by Strip »

Offline oneway

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Re: Next scenario
« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2010, 06:28:40 PM »
Oneway,

The simple act of conversion should not degrade the quality in terms of normal daily use, its when compression (.jpg is famous for this) takes place that you lose detail.

Strip

Hmmm...

Ahhh...so its about compression not conversion...

I still think that converting back and forth chews away at the quality...

As far as the Bitmap goes...its as pure as it gets...it is just what it name implies: A Map...

It consists of extents x and y...(a grid system of pixels)...with a color value associated with each x,y coordinate..

It doesn't get any simpler than that...and in fact, is the corner stone of all imaging in the Win OS...

Pixel pixel =  bmp[x,y];
DrawPixel(pixel.x, pixel.y, pixel.color);

(that is shorthand for what is actually going on...like really short hand ...  :rofl)

 :salute


Offline Have

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Re: Next scenario
« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2010, 01:54:21 AM »
This is the equivalent of making a photocopy of a photocopy n times for n-1...

You're thinking analog here, not digital. The images will not loose anything if you are using lossless image formats and do not limit the amount of bits available for colors.

An example of limiting the colors could be if you are using BMPs with color depth of 32 bits per pixel for your work and then for some reason save them to GIFs. In this situation there is a high chance that you will loose some colors from the original image, because the GIF format supports only 8 bits - eg. maximum of 256 different colors. The final result depends how much you are using of the available 32 bits in the BMP. If there are more than 256 different colors in the original, data will be lost in the BMP-to-GIF conversion because the GIF has the 256 color palette limitation. In this situation the image processing software usually try to approximate the colors so that the resulting image is as close to the original as possible.

Wikipedia has (as usual) a good article about lossy compressions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lossy_data_compression
Those indeed do work more or less like in your photocopy example, because the compression algorithm is executed each time when the image is being saved to a format with lossy compression. A JPG/JPEG is a good example of this.

Bitmaps are used by computer software internally for rapid access, but usually the images are stored in some compressed format because the raw bitmaps use so much space.

Keep up with the good work oneway with your maps and scenario software, this image format "debate" is just for general advice  :aok

And that is enough from me to this completely off topic subject :)

Offline oneway

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Re: Next scenario
« Reply #24 on: January 08, 2010, 04:16:00 PM »
 :aok


Offline Husky01

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Re: Next scenario
« Reply #25 on: January 13, 2010, 10:09:45 PM »
 :t 4440
BearKats
9GIAP VVS RKKA

Offline 4440

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Re: Next scenario
« Reply #26 on: January 14, 2010, 10:36:15 AM »
:t 4440


Oh pray tell, what is that supposed to mean :angel:

Offline Husky01

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Re: Next scenario
« Reply #27 on: January 14, 2010, 02:04:55 PM »
Noothingggg  :D
BearKats
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Offline oneway

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Re: Next scenario
« Reply #28 on: January 14, 2010, 03:54:29 PM »

Oh pray tell, what is that supposed to mean :angel:

I would be very careful....

He has the new add-on installed called the Husky Highlighter...

And your in his database...

 :rofl

Oneway




Offline 4440

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Re: Next scenario
« Reply #29 on: January 14, 2010, 04:18:58 PM »
I would be very careful....

He has the new add-on installed called the Husky Highlighter...

And your in his database...

 :rofl

Oneway

(Image removed from quote.)



That wouldn't surprise me.  BK known to do underhanded things.