Dueling vs MA fighting

[grizz441]

Both pilot skill as well as plane performance are part of the equation that determines the result of a dogfight (amongst several others). "It's all the pilot" is as overly generalizing and incorrect as "it's all the plane".

The plane is a tool we use. A good craftsman can still do astonishing things with a "bad" tool, but surely he could do more with a "better" one. An absolute beginner in any trade will most probably create nothing much of value, no matter which tool he is using. And there are tools with which a experienced craftsman can really create a masterpiece, but which may be too difficult to use for a beginner to utilize to their true potential.
With planes ist just the same.

+1 Very true.  I'd say however, 'the pilot' dictates a higher percentage in the majority of the plane set.  The extremes, i.e. Fw190A8/Zeke is where pilot becomes less of a factor and plane becomes more.

[Agent360]

A young photographer walks into a camera shop. He as several examples of his work tucked under his arm and carrying an old pin hole box camera. He asks the shop owner at the counter if buying new camera would make his photos better. He then shows some of his work to the shop owner.

The shop owner looks at the photos. Pauses. Turns to his friend who is a master photographer and asks what do you think while showing the photos to him.

The master photographer replies...These photos are beautiful...sharp...and perfectly exposed....Why do you need a new camera.

The young photographer replies...I thought a newer camera would make my pictures even better.

The master replies....Well, a new camera might make it EASIER but a new camera won't make your pictures better. It's not how fancy your equipment is...it's how you use it that counts.

[Delirium]

It's not how fancy your equipment is...it's how you use it that counts.

That is what my wife said, but I still think she is lying to me to make me feel better.

[WMLute]

Both pilot skill as well as plane performance are part of the equation that determines the result of a dogfight (amongst several others). "It's all the pilot" is as overly generalizing and incorrect as "it's all the plane".

If you read my post I said that I am aware of all the various strengths/weakness of the planes in AH and use that knowledge.

I never said it is 'all' the pilot.

Sure the plane matters.

Pilot matters more.



Average pilot in a Spit 16 vs. a good pilot in a p40E.

Who wins that fight?

you guys make a lot of assumptions ...

high numbers combined with the pervasive furballer mentality means that your average player will have a 1/3 k/d ...

lute, let me ask you this, if you take two well matched members of the AH top 100(you pick) would you put your money on the guy in the fighter or the one in the dive bomber? 

would you feel pretty confident about that bet? 

if you lost that bet would you be of the mind that the guy in the fighter messed up?

Furballer mentality?

So now you tossing out another b.s. excuse I have to rip to shreds only to have you spew another bunch of.... (repeat ad infinitum)

I will give you another reason why players such as yourself will only be "meh" at best in a fight.

Excuses.

I tried to train a player once.  Spent an hour or more with them.  Whenever they screwed up they had an excuse ready as to why they failed.  It was never "their" fault.  There was a "reason" they blew the move, or crashed, or lost position, etc, etc..  Said player is still pretty piss poor as a fighter and it has been a year or two.  A player like this will never learn.  You remind me of this player.


I will happily fight any top 100 stick flying a zeke in my D3A Val.

And yes, I would be fairly confident of that bet.

[Plawranc]

How much "attacking from a position of inferiority" do you see in the MA?  I don't see much.  I see a lot of running as soon as the advantage is lost.

I always attack unless attack is impossible. As David Tennants Dr Who would say "More fun that way".

BUT, I will run if the situation is "if I don't I'm certainly screwed" and when I gain a good seperation I turn back and fight because once you start something you finish it 

[humble]

This is my 1st hop this morning, just so happened we had a carrier and a bit of red in the same area so I rolled an SBD. All in all this a pretty typical sortie for me in the SBD (or anything for that matter). In the end my gunnery and SA just don't quite match up to my "flying". It does however give a feel for what the SBD is capable of (or more in better hands). I put rounds in everything but the mustang and had 3 decent cockpit shots I just couldn't quite convert (going from memory since I didn't look at the clip after. If there is anything odd power wise in the 1st one on two it was due to my hotas USB cutting out 2 or 3 times mid fight. I plugged it into my monitor USB instead of digging my powered hub out this AM. In then end given the hills and low E/alt the spitty kind of forced himself on me and I got a bit target focused on him feeling that if I could finish him before the others could get wood on me I'd be able to hold them off and rebuild some vertical capabilities...
http://www.az-dsl.com/snaphook/SBDinthemorning.ahf   

What I think is important as it relates to this thread is that "dueling" involves more then the merge. The really good duelers dont win every merge but they can often deny shots, stabalize a bad situation and work to build an advantage back up. These skills all come into play in the MA as well....

[thorsim]

so we've established that the average pilot in AH is nothing to be afraid of ...

what you fail to get lute is that if you let a pilot in a plane that cannot do anything required for air to air combat 1/2 as well as your plane than you messed up ...

if the game is such than a player can get around that reality by being a better player than it has big problems.

i know people out there can shoot 100% free throws playing as Shaq in NBA Live Whatever,
however that VIDEO GAME therefore can not be called a SIM.  can it?

[WMLute]

if you let a pilot in a plane that cannot do anything required for air to air combat 1/2 as well as your plane than you messed up ...

Thanks for confirming that my earlier post was spot on and I have you pegged.

Enjoy your "meh"ness.

[Stiglr]

See Rule #4

[Masherbrum]

See Rule #4

[BnZs]

so we've established that the average pilot in AH is nothing to be afraid of ...

what you fail to get lute is that if you let a pilot in a plane that cannot do anything required for air to air combat 1/2 as well as your plane than you messed up ...

Everyone messes up, a least a little bit, every minute that they fly. (Or do anything else in life.) Victory goes to him who messes up the least.

if the game is such than a player can get around that reality by being a better player than it has big problems.

Your grasp of reality is perhaps faulty. In every fight there are segments where relative plane strengths simply do not matter, or even stack up in counter-intuitive ways. Consider....A SpitXVI and a 190 A8 are both going 400mph. Theoretically the Spit holds every dogfighting "advantage" in this contest. It turns much better, climbs and accelerates much better, and retains airspeed in turns better. However until the fight slow significantly, the XVI's turn performance advantage simply does not exist, because both are well above corner speed and G-limited. In this circumstance the XVIs E-retention in maneuver can become a weakness, the A8 will be able to decelerate to its corner velocity sooner precisely because it bleeds E like a stuck pig under Gs.

[Bronk]

IT did?    How so?   He won't duel anyone in this game with more experience then himself (Clue #1).   He has lost every Ad Hominem "discussion" he has started/entered on this BBS (Clue #2).

But, two facts remain. 

1.)   You have an antiquated PC, so you have zilch to say about a game you do not/cannot play.
2.)   You're even hated at Targetware.

Even the Sad Pandas feel bad for you.   But we don't.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Stiglr]

BnZs says:

Consider....A SpitXVI and a 190 A8 are both going 400mph. Theoretically the Spit holds every dogfighting "advantage" in this contest. It turns much better, climbs and accelerates much better, and retains airspeed in turns better.

You don't factor roll rate into the equation. At 400 mph,  that's likely going to factor more than turn, as both aircraft are too fast for high-G turns. Spit roll rate is mediocre for the entire family, while all FW190s excel at it.

[Bronk]

BnZs says:
You don't factor roll rate into the equation. At 400 mph,  that's likely going to factor more than turn, as both aircraft are too fast for high-G turns. Spit roll rate is mediocre for the entire family, while all FW190s excel at it.

Erm clipped winged spits roll quite well.

[Stiglr]

....for Spits.

And if the Spit VIII were so successful... why did the clipped wing disappear on the later X+ marks?

At any rate, the scenario doesn't state Spit 8, so.....