Dueling vs MA fighting

[Masherbrum]

Steve, you are slipping my good man.Now.. it is fixed.

 

[Stiglr]

The Zeke-5 is a Mid War ride as is the Ki-61.   You're still missing the point.   

I'm familiar enough with Japanese planes to know that. But I'm also enough of a history buff to know the two weren't natural adversaries, both coming from the same country and all. (Yeah, the IJN and IJA had a bitter inter-service rivalvry, but it didn't ever come to open combat!) I think YOU'RE missing the point that Arenas are STUPID, even though I spelt it out for you... twice now.

The point I'm trying to make is, it's pretty pointLESS to explore matchups that never happened, past a pure similar-vs-similar or similar-vs-dissimilar duel setup. A neutral merge just did not happen that much in the real war, there was almost always some difference in angles, alt, situation, numbers, etc., that totally invalidates the classic duel setup, making it only suitable for "slide rule" type pilots; people who want to quote Shaw line and verse but can only apply it in a rote, specific situation.

The lessons to be learned about energy, position, coordination, etc. are all best dealt with in context of a mission or a situation.... er, unless you're studying HO passes at bomber boxes... oh no, wait, you tend to do a shallow dive into a pass like that, never mind.

What one gets from trying to learn the CONCEPTS, and applying them in combat in many situations, using Situational Awareness skills and playing the cards he's been dealt: that's how you "get good".

[Nemisis]

In a 1 on 1 with dueling rules i can never figure out what I doing wrong. It's always the same thing. I run out of E and the opponent keeps climbing until he drops on my six. I need advice on what I'm doing wrong.

IMHO, the P-51 isn't really suited to the dueling rules because it takes away the 51's advantage over a lot of planes: speed.

[Stiglr]

That's just ONE example.

Why would you as a P-51 driver, give up a marked speed advantage and go in co-alt, co-E, cold merge. What is this, a Renaissance Faire with airplanes?

It just makes no sense.

[Masherbrum]

I'm familiar enough with Japanese planes to know that. But I'm also enough of a history buff to know the two weren't natural adversaries, both coming from the same country and all. (Yeah, the IJN and IJA had a bitter inter-service rivalvry, but it didn't ever come to open combat!) I think YOU'RE missing the point that Arenas are STUPID, even though I spelt it out for you... twice now.

The point I'm trying to make is, it's pretty pointLESS to explore matchups that never happened, past a pure similar-vs-similar or similar-vs-dissimilar duel setup. A neutral merge just did not happen that much in the real war, there was almost always some difference in angles, alt, situation, numbers, etc., that totally invalidates the classic duel setup, making it only suitable for "slide rule" type pilots; people who want to quote Shaw line and verse but can only apply it in a rote, specific situation.

The lessons to be learned about energy, position, coordination, etc. are all best dealt with in context of a mission or a situation.... er, unless you're studying HO passes at bomber boxes... oh no, wait, you tend to do a shallow dive into a pass like that, never mind.

What one gets from trying to learn the CONCEPTS, and applying them in combat in many situations, using Situational Awareness skills and playing the cards he's been dealt: that's how you "get good".

    Ok.   I'm through with you.   Any 2 weekers out there?   Contact the Trainers and avoid the quoted person.    You'll enjoy the game more.  

[Stiglr]

Through with me, why? Because I make some good points, throwing darts at your precious "arenas"?   

I'll take that as pwnage. 

[Bronk]

Want historical match ups? Fly AVA or FSO.  If not .....shaddapp.

[Masherbrum]

Through with me, why? Because I make some good points, throwing darts at your precious "arenas"?   

I'll take that as pwnage. 

IDGAF about "Arenas".   I enjoy having fun in this game and helping others.   Whatever friendships I've made throughout the years is merely the reason I stick around.   But I fly FSO and still see dweebery.   You'll never get rid of it. 

[Nemisis]

Through with me, why? Because I make some good points, throwing darts at your precious "arenas"?  

I'll take that as pwnage.  

Your post replying to my comment about the P-51 being at a disadvantage shows a bit of intelegence. Not a lot, as there are no HO's in the initial merge, so you take no risks from entering Co E. The main issue is that the 2k seperation limit takes away speed advantages and places a priority on turn rate and manuvering. Fact is that some planes can't turn all that well, and that some (F4F and P-40B come to mind) don't have enough engine power to make multiple succesive manuvers without taking a massive hit in speed and ability to preform the next manuver.

However, your third to last post shows seems to me like you read some pilot memoirs, read the AH2 help manual (which IS more than most, I'll give you that), but have no, or next to no, combat flying time, and are trying to elaborate on what you've read and heard.

[Ack-Ack]

More utter stupidity in matchups....

Spit I vs. Spit XVI??? 1940 planes vs. 1944 planes?

Zeke vs. Ki-61?

Any of you know any classic historic matchups?

Or is it always "ueberest plane available today vs. 2nd ueberest plane available today"? Or is it only "fight that never took place"?

Arenas are STUPID.

That's your opinion, which you are entitled to.  However, looking at the numbers that frequent the main arenas compared to the AvA arena, it seems that the majority of players disagree with you.  The same was true for WB and AW and I think by the lower population of TargetWare is also further testiment, though there are other reasons for the low popularity of TargetWare such as the craptastic flight model that keeps people from playing there.  Also, from reading the TW forums, it seems that those regular players in there really don't agree with your views as well.  Not surprised by that either.


ack-ack

[Nemisis]

See, there ya go. If you won't listen to us, at least listen to him.


Ack-Ack
great pilot
expirenced player
thoughtful in his posts

Stiglr
whiney
argumentitive
2 weeker


I think ack ack wins. Can we get an official ruleing?

[Steve]

IMHO, the P-51 isn't really suited to the dueling rules because it takes away the 51's advantage over a lot of planes: speed.

So how do you fight another 51 with similar or even greater E than your 51?

[Stiglr]

Ack-Ack wrote:

craptastic flight model

Too funny. TOO FUNNY. 

Targetware's flight model is MILES ahead of the arcade game flight model in here.

[Stiglr]

So how do you fight another 51 with similar or even greater E than your 51?

Forcing an overshoot comes to mind.... or, if you're better or more patient than your opponent, and can get him to blow his E while you conserve yours long enough to stay flyable and then reverse the tables... then do that.

You still don't absolutely need to start with a HO merge to explore that. In fact, since you mention greater speed/E, that wouldn't be a duel to begin with, would it?

[TW9]

IMHO, the P-51 isn't really suited to the dueling rules because it takes away the 51's advantage over a lot of planes: speed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EElAjwTWODI

'nuff said