Obie,
The amount of incorrect information regarding firearms (owning, possessing, carrying, transferring, etc) being passed on as fact (or law) is mind-blowing. I didn't single your post out to embarrass you or to sound superior, but rather to inform. There are people who believe, and will argue vehemently, that the 4473 you fill out for your NICS check goes directly to the ATF and into a nationwide gun registration database.
I hope you and others dig a little deeper into the laws of your particular state and educate yourselves a bit. I'd be willing to bet there will be some "Well damn, I didn't know that" moments.
This is how a simple traffic stop, as stated by the OP, should go.
Completely unnecessary. A firearm is safest in its holster. When you start fiddling with it, the chance of a negligent discharge goes through the roof.
By chump I imagine you are talking about unlawful search, seizure and/or detainment.
So if a person doesn't relinquish their 4th Amendment rights they get detained for an unreasonable time. And members of the LEO community wonder why there is so much distrust.
Fortunately there are citizens who will not stand for this abuse of authority. Maybe when some of the federal cases are settled there will be more limits placed on law enforcement to avoid such abuses of authority and violations of individual rights.
And this one bad apple ruins it for the rest. Unlawful arrest, detainment, confiscation of property ... some agency or department is going to be glad they have lawsuit insurance, or some municipality is going to have to have to issue bonds to cover the judgment. I can think of 2 or 3 federal lawsuits going on right now because people were either illegally detained or had their firearms confiscated. Hopefully the time of people rolling over to intimidation and uniformed thuggery, at least on this topic/issue, is drawing down. Hopefully.
I've already touched on the 4th Amendment , so I won't get on my soap box again. What is more concerning is that you know people, and have experience, of the unlawful denial of basic, fundamental rights, and have not done anything about it. From the way you phrased it, it sounds like you participated in the abuse of authority. I sincerely hope I'm reading it wrong and you aren't one of the jack-booted thugs that give the upstanding law enforcement officers a bad name.
It would be nice if you had some sort of general idea about the subject at hand. I'm certainly pleased you've decided that I've been a bad cop. Having NEVER had ANY dealings with you, I'm quite happy that you've made this determination. And you wonder why some officers have such disdain for some people. Here you are on your soapbox preaching while you decide to judge people you do not know, with information you do not have. I hope your wonderful prejudicial attitude does not get you into trouble. Idiots and fools like you are one good reason I left law enforcement. Those of us who decided to serve and protect do not need idiots to "test" us to make our jobs more difficult. It is a job most of said idiots would never do, because they lack the willingness to make the sacrifices and accept the risks. But they sure love to criticize people they don't know about things they have little knowledge of.
And no, it is NOT a violation of your 4th Amendment rights if you decline to inform an officer you are carrying a weapon, then he sees it or has reason to believe it is there, and he detains you. Sorry, wrong answer. With your CCW permit comes responsibility. Part of that responsibility is to be up front with any officer, to prevent any incidents. A good CCW permit instructor will tell you to tell the officer you have the weapon and the permit, so that he doesn't spot it and rightfully assume you are trying to hide it from him. Most states that issue CCW permits will tell you as a part of the course that it is your responsibility to notify any officer who stops you for any reason that you have the permit and the weapon. In many states, failure to do so can bring about immediate and permanent revocation of your permit.
USE COMMON SENSE, if an officer pulls you over, or stops you, and he spots a weapon that you did not tell him you had, he will assume, with good reason, that you intended to conceal this weapon from him, and as such, will immediately consider you a threat, and rightfully so. At that point, if he is smart, he will disarm you immediately, and detain you until such time as he can determine whether or not you and your weapon are legal or not. I can assure you that is standard policy at most agencies. I can also assure you that such policy has and will continue to pass constitutional examination.
To my knowledge, the Supreme Court has not ruled that requiring a CCW permit holder to inform an officer that he/she holds such a permit and a weapon violates any constitutional right, nor that it constitutes unreasonable search and seizure. The courts have ruled that an officer does have the right to expect to be informed of your possession of a permit and a weapon if you have them.
There are certainly cases of officers who have over stepped their authority, since they are humans, they represent a cross section of society just like any other group, with good and bad. There are many who should not be officers, there many who are chiefs who shouldn't even be officers.
These people advising you to test your constitutional rights by not informing an officer are most often lawyers looking for business. Most of the rest of them are looking for someone else to "test" something for them because they lack the fortitude to try something like that themselves, so they look for a willing guinea pig to do it for them. If you like being a guinea pig, or you like the idea of making lawyers rich, by all means, go for it.
If an officer exceeds his authority, by all means, make a federal case out of it. But if you're stupid enough to make an officer's job excessively difficult, and it doesn't work out for you, well, too bad. You asked for it, I hope you enjoy the "test".
