Author Topic: CA13 Boomerang  (Read 4543 times)

Offline Wmaker

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5743
      • Lentolaivue 34 website
Re: CA13 Boomerang
« Reply #30 on: January 08, 2011, 12:36:15 PM »
So says the Brewstard fanboi.  Anything said about the Brewster gets your hackles up.  People whine about it and you say they have a biased opinion against the B-239.  Yet you are so obviously pro-Brewster, how can your statements not be taken with a grain of salt?  You're just afraid the Boomerang can hang with the Brew just long enough to pop a couple 20 mm shells in your little fidget.  :neener:

+1 for the Boomerang.

Caldera, a dose of common sense for you wouldn't go a miss.

Just like I said, I base my opinion on facts like the wing loading and speed. While they alone don't tell the whole story, I'm still quite sure that Brewster would both catch (albeit very very very slowly) and outurn the Boomerang based on the literature/documents about these planes. Brewster's top speed at sea level is 280mph while Boomerang's top speed at sea level is 277mph. So the speeds are close but it shows that Boomerang cannot get away from the Brewster, especially considering that Brewster has better power to weight ratio which should enable it to climb at a faster rate and therefore accelerate faster. Brewster's wing uses a quite a high lift airfoil for its time. I haven't checked the airfoil of the Boomerang, but I'll take a lucky guess that it is one from the NACA series and starts with the digits 23XX(X). The difference in wingloading is quite clear at over ~30kg/sqm. There really isn't much that can overcome these facts. Therefore, Brewster has the smaller turn radius.

So looking at the facts, there really isn't much that the Boomerang can do against the Brewster in a close in low speed turning combat. And btw, I never said I was against its inclusion. I've always thought that it is a cute looking fighter and very interesting. I'd fly it for sure. However, I do think that there are far more important planes to add at this stage of the development of the planeset. And considering all of the above and the fact that I've flown this sim for ~10 years, the suggestion that I'd be "afraid" of a certain plane type is rather absurd. While there are better fighters and not so good fighters, it is the pilot that can make either of them very dangerous. That is not to say that certain fighter give you a lot more options than others. Regarding the Boomerang, it would compete in being the easiest fighter for the Brewster to shoot down with the I-16.

Regarding my objectivity, yes, I consider myself objective when it comes to talking about aircraft performance in general. There really ain't much point not to be if this is your lifetime hobby and you are actually interested in the truth. If you wouldn't be objective, you'd be essentially lying to yourself, and that doesn't make much sense now does it? Especially when looking at what is/was needed in the real war, most of the planeset is clearly superior to the Brewster performancewise. I have absolutely no problem admitting that. But let me post a link to a plane that would truly be a Brewster killer in Brewster's own performance envelope which I really would like to see in AH someday: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtiss-Wright_CW-21. It has no place in AH currently IMO, but hopefully someday. I'd love the challenge and I'd fly it too myself. The problem here is that you just didn't have the faintest clue about the relative performance of these planes.

Caldera, I suggest you at least try to think a bit before you submit your next post.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2011, 01:03:17 PM by Wmaker »
Wmaker
Lentolaivue 34

Thank you for the Brewster HTC!

Offline waystin2

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10166
Re: CA13 Boomerang
« Reply #31 on: January 08, 2011, 12:41:14 PM »
Looking at the wingloading and top speed values, I somewhat doubt it.

In all seriousness Wmaker, I ask you this: what if the Australian players have overwhelming data that supports Jolly22's supposition?  Isn't that how we got the Brewster's data for it's ingame flight model?  Overwhelming support data from the Fin's?  Playing a bit of the devil's advocate here.  Just curious as to your thoughts....
CO for the Pigs On The Wing
& The nicest guy in Aces High!

Offline Wmaker

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5743
      • Lentolaivue 34 website
Re: CA13 Boomerang
« Reply #32 on: January 08, 2011, 12:49:38 PM »
In all seriousness Wmaker, I ask you this: what if the Australian players have overwhelming data that supports Jolly22's supposition?  Isn't that how we got the Brewster's data for it's ingame flight model?  Overwhelming support data from the Fin's?  Playing a bit of the devil's advocate here.  Just curious as to your thoughts....

No offence Waystin but you aren't really making whole a lot of sense either.

- What "Jolly22's position"?

- I suggest that you wouldn't make too many assumptions about how the data for Brewster's flight model was obtained/what that data contained.

Read my post above. It is all about physics. A certain geometry moving through air with a certain amount of thrust at any given time. Boomerang can't bent the rules of physics anymore than Brewster or let's say a Mustang can.

Read more, assume less...in all seriousness.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2011, 01:00:27 PM by Wmaker »
Wmaker
Lentolaivue 34

Thank you for the Brewster HTC!

Offline waystin2

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10166
Re: CA13 Boomerang
« Reply #33 on: January 08, 2011, 01:02:33 PM »
No offence Waystin but you aren't really making whole a lot of sense either.

- What "Jolly22's position"? still believe that the Boomerang would be a very smart aircraft to add, it would DEFINENTLY give the brewster a run for its money. (everyone is looking for a plane to kill a brew right) 
- I suggest that you wouldn't make too many assumptions about how the data for Brewster's flight model was obtained/what that data contained.   I have understood all along that the Brewster's data came from the Finnish contingent of players in the game.  If this is incorrect, please let me know.  I want truth, not hearsay.Read my post above. It is all about physics. A certaint geometry moving through air with certain amount of thrust at any given time. Boomerang can't bent them anymore than Brewster or let's say a Mustang can. I undertand your physics reasoning and it is sound in the real world.  In Aces High, it is the supporting data and information about an aircraft that decides it's flight model, not it's geometry.
Read more, assume less...in all seriousness.  I read alot, but you need to be more open in your discussion and mindset.  Not everyone that enters into a discussion involving the Brewster wants to see it nerfed or thinks it is overmodeled.  Take me for instance, I am not and never will whine about the Brewster, but I do enjoy digging to the bottom of the matter and understanding what is up.  So in seriousness, I have not seen a single shred of evidence yet that the Brewster is over-modeled in anyway.  So my stance is leave it the hell alone folks.  Now onto the Boomerang.  Sometimes you have supporters, but you just are'nt seeing them.
CO for the Pigs On The Wing
& The nicest guy in Aces High!

Offline caldera

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6437
Re: CA13 Boomerang
« Reply #34 on: January 08, 2011, 02:43:01 PM »
Quote

Caldera, I suggest you at least try to think a bit before you submit your next post.

Got your hackles up again, huh?   Prove to me that the average pilot in a Boomerang can't hang with a similar pilot in the Brewstard.  Like you said, the pilot not the plane.  As long as we're not talking about uber 10 year sim pilots, the Boomerang will shoot down Brewsters.  Will it be as good?  Maybe not but it will be competitive.
"Then out spake brave Horatius, the Captain of the gate:
 To every man upon this earth, death cometh soon or late.
 And how can man die better, than facing fearful odds.
 For the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods."

Offline Krusty

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 26745
Re: CA13 Boomerang
« Reply #35 on: January 09, 2011, 12:35:35 AM »
Apparently nobody reads this forum.... Or they just post blindly and move on to repeating the same fluff over and over.

From another recent thread:

So... You want a plane so inadequate they couldn't even get a single kill?

So inadequate that it was relegated to carrying 50lb smoke bombs to mark ground targets for OTHER (US-made) planes to bomb?

It's a glorrified infantry strafer.

Even the Aussie test pilot (and ace) said the name was a misnomer, because anybody going into combat with one would NOT be returning home.


From another recent thread:

Click me

2 of the 3 squadrons were homeland defense (no action), and one was tasked to one of the islands. They were able to drive off the Japanese craft, but due to their speed were never able to actually engage the enemy.

With nothing else they COULD do the majority of their war participation was strafing ground units to aid friendly army forces.


Hardly really worth it. I'm all for patriotism and the like, but as far as WW2 and this game goes, the Boomerang is a non-entity.

Between 1942 and 1945 only 240 or so were made. Most of these were probably trainers, because in 1943 the many US made models filled the role of "Fighter" for the Aussie Air Force.

Offline Wmaker

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5743
      • Lentolaivue 34 website
Re: CA13 Boomerang
« Reply #36 on: January 09, 2011, 04:01:41 AM »
Got your hackles up again, huh?   Prove to me that the average pilot in a Boomerang can't hang with a similar pilot in the Brewstard.  Like you said, the pilot not the plane.  As long as we're not talking about uber 10 year sim pilots, the Boomerang will shoot down Brewsters.  Will it be as good?  Maybe not but it will be competitive.

Ok, you are way beyond reasoning with.

Hopefully we'll get the Boomerang some day along with the rest of the operational planes of WWII...
Wmaker
Lentolaivue 34

Thank you for the Brewster HTC!

Offline Avanti

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 282
Re: CA13 Boomerang
« Reply #37 on: January 09, 2011, 04:17:00 AM »

Offline Avanti

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 282
Re: CA13 Boomerang
« Reply #38 on: January 09, 2011, 04:19:42 AM »
+1 To the Boomer

I think all you non-believers will be pleasantly surprised

Offline Wmaker

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5743
      • Lentolaivue 34 website
Re: CA13 Boomerang
« Reply #39 on: January 09, 2011, 05:11:27 AM »


See my post above.

The "data" comes from the aircraft's performance which in turn comes from its aerodynamical properties (geometry, thrust, stability and so on.)

I never assumed anything regarding your position on how Brewster is modelled. It doesn't matter. The specs of these planes are found from various sources and are there for everyone to find out. My reasoning regarding the relative performance of the Brewster and Boomerang is based on these facts. So I don't really see where you are getting at with this: "overwhelming data that supports Jolly22's supposition". What "overhwelming data" can there be? The speeds, weights, wing areas, power outputs are all published data. Once more, read my post above.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2011, 05:13:59 AM by Wmaker »
Wmaker
Lentolaivue 34

Thank you for the Brewster HTC!

Offline Plawranc

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2683
      • Youtube Channel
Re: CA13 Boomerang
« Reply #40 on: January 09, 2011, 05:28:46 AM »
It seems that everyone hits hard with logic, but the punch wears off.

It didn't score an Air to Air kill. Some of the aircraft in AH2 now scored very little, and were dedicated fighters. This is a utility aircraft built for the Australian Army to fit a close support role, strafing troops, and giving them SOME cover from enemy air attack. We have a B5N, thats a bomber with no forward gun, but it did substantial damage with bombs and torpedos, it doesnt have an "Air to Air kill" but its there because it sank the Arizona on Dec 7th (Historically significant) the same applies with the D3A1. The boomerang can do everything, but not totally own at something. Its like a slower, tighter turning Spitfire. It served in squadron strength, had a substantial place in history as Australias only home built fighter but had a SIGNIFICANT ROLE in New Guinea. Combined with the Kiwi Fighter bombers it was the most dangerous close support plane around. The Japanese were faced with not one whistling death.. but two, as the Boomerang made a very high pitched whistle when flying fast and low.

I am biased obviously. But, WMaker here asked for the Brewster. put up the reasons for it including the fact that it was his nations fighter, and it arrived in the game and is loved by those who fly it and hated by those who fear it. Our player base is American and British primarily, and which two nations have the most aircraft?  
DaPacman - 71 Squadron RAF

"There are only two things that make life worth living. Fornication and Aviation"

Offline Tyrannis

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3931
Re: CA13 Boomerang
« Reply #41 on: January 09, 2011, 05:38:20 AM »
It seems that everyone hits hard with logic, but the punch wears off.

It didn't score an Air to Air kill. Some of the aircraft in AH2 now scored very little, and were dedicated fighters. This is a utility aircraft built for the Australian Army to fit a close support role, strafing troops, and giving them SOME cover from enemy air attack. We have a B5N, thats a bomber with no forward gun, but it did substantial damage with bombs and torpedos, it doesnt have an "Air to Air kill" but its there because it sank the Arizona on Dec 7th (Historically significant) the same applies with the D3A1. The boomerang can do everything, but not totally own at something. Its like a slower, tighter turning Spitfire. It served in squadron strength, had a substantial place in history as Australias only home built fighter but had a SIGNIFICANT ROLE in New Guinea. Combined with the Kiwi Fighter bombers it was the most dangerous close support plane around. The Japanese were faced with not one whistling death.. but two, as the Boomerang made a very high pitched whistle when flying fast and low.

I am biased obviously. But, WMaker here asked for the Brewster. put up the reasons for it including the fact that it was his nations fighter, and it arrived in the game and is loved by those who fly it and hated by those who fear it. Our player base is American and British primarily, and which two nations have the most aircraft?  


only thing i can see the boomerang becoming usefull at, is it HTC gave it smoke bombs. they could be used to mark enemy tank postions on the ground for friendly armor, used to help the gunners on cvs guess distance to target, or maybe if you want to drop enough you could make a smoke screen over your town to disrupt accurate high level bombing. only real thing i can see this aircraft being able to do.

Offline Plawranc

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2683
      • Youtube Channel
Re: CA13 Boomerang
« Reply #42 on: January 09, 2011, 05:58:34 AM »
The funny thing is, what is any aircraft in this game "useful" for. I mean, there are 3 types of fighting. E conservation, BnZ and TnB.

And all the fighters in this game fall into one of these three categories. So this argument is invalid. This aircraft has a fantastic PtW and CR. And can turn like a mofo. Just isnt that quick. Its a dedicated turnfighter and good close support aircraft.

That alone makes it qualified.
DaPacman - 71 Squadron RAF

"There are only two things that make life worth living. Fornication and Aviation"

Offline EskimoJoe

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4831
Re: CA13 Boomerang
« Reply #43 on: January 09, 2011, 06:12:23 AM »
See my post above.

The "data" comes from the aircraft's performance which in turn comes from its aerodynamical properties (geometry, thrust, stability and so on.)

I never assumed anything regarding your position on how Brewster is modelled. It doesn't matter. The specs of these planes are found from various sources and are there for everyone to find out. My reasoning regarding the relative performance of the Brewster and Boomerang is based on these facts. So I don't really see where you are getting at with this: "overwhelming data that supports Jolly22's supposition". What "overhwelming data" can there be? The speeds, weights, wing areas, power outputs are all published data. Once more, read my post above.

Wmaker, might as well leave it be man. They want their Boomerang the same way you wanted your Brewster. Enough said, really.
Besides, it's a wishlist. Not much reason to argue why it shouldn't be in the game.
To freshen things up, why don't you tards argue about why a plane SHOULD be in the game, eh?
Nevermind.. I suppose that would never end well, considering the "loving" community here...
« Last Edit: January 09, 2011, 06:36:35 AM by EskimoJoe »
Put a +1 on your geekness atribute  :aok

Offline Denholm

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9667
      • No. 603 Squadron
Re: CA13 Boomerang
« Reply #44 on: January 09, 2011, 10:41:45 PM »
Apparently nobody reads this forum.... Or they just post blindly and move on to repeating the same fluff over and over.

From another recent thread:

Please keep in mind this thread was started January of 2010. I don't believe posters have managed to predict the future just yet.
Get your Daily Dose of Flame!
FlameThink.com
No. 603 Squadron... Visit us on the web, if you dare.

Drug addicts are always disappointed after eating Pot Pies.