Author Topic: First flight for the Russian "F-22"  (Read 5916 times)

Offline indy007

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Re: First flight for the Russian "F-22"
« Reply #60 on: February 02, 2010, 04:33:59 PM »
Nope.  There is one launch during Desert Storm but no confirmed kill out of it.  That's one of the problems with BVR, you're not going to have gun camera footage.

I've read about that one. I've never seen one of these fly, only played with it in simulations. It's funny, even video game players know to scatter when the F-14 RWR icon pops up. Since we don't have any missile with anything like the buffalo's range, why wouldn't they want to update it for the AN/APG-77? LPI radar & 100 mile SARH, active terminal guidance @ pitbull, HOJ.. relatively easy with modern processors. The -77 already tracks more targets, can operate more missiles than the AN/AWG-9, and it's setup for datalinks. Why just stick with the AIM-120 when the latest generation of Russian AA missiles have 10 to 20 more miles of range... which is a lot when a high pK AIM-120 shot is at what... 20 miles or less? Low pK @ 40ish? Just because it's cheaper, lighter, and more things have the software to release it?

Offline Strip

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Re: First flight for the Russian "F-22"
« Reply #61 on: February 02, 2010, 05:39:59 PM »
ROE might be a big part of that?

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Offline Mace2004

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Re: First flight for the Russian "F-22"
« Reply #62 on: February 02, 2010, 06:25:51 PM »
I've read about that one. I've never seen one of these fly, only played with it in simulations. It's funny, even video game players know to scatter when the F-14 RWR icon pops up. Since we don't have any missile with anything like the buffalo's range, why wouldn't they want to update it for the AN/APG-77? LPI radar & 100 mile SARH, active terminal guidance @ pitbull, HOJ.. relatively easy with modern processors. The -77 already tracks more targets, can operate more missiles than the AN/AWG-9, and it's setup for datalinks. Why just stick with the AIM-120 when the latest generation of Russian AA missiles have 10 to 20 more miles of range... which is a lot when a high pK AIM-120 shot is at what... 20 miles or less? Low pK @ 40ish? Just because it's cheaper, lighter, and more things have the software to release it?
Well, for one reason you have to carry it.  A thousand pound, 15 inch wide missile is quite a load but primarily you have to consider what it was designed to do and that was to target Badgers, and Backfires, and Bears (oh my!), not fighters. The AIM54C was much better against fighters than the A but even that was overkill for a 130lb warhead.  Also, consider ROE where the chances of taking an 80nm shot is very slim and also the fact that AMRAAM is a much faster missile.  The Phoenix isn't all that agile either due to it's size and weight and this agility in the end game is very important against a maneuvering fighter.
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Offline Babalonian

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Re: First flight for the Russian "F-22"
« Reply #63 on: February 02, 2010, 06:29:28 PM »
XF is the squadron identifier but we usually filed as Vandy X (based on our squadron callsign "Vanderbuilt").  BTW, no Tomcat guy ever elbowed in on a Hornet guy's spotlight as no Hornet guy ever had a spotlight shined on him, it was always on us   :lol

You may remember this one, it was painted by Grumman for us (illegally...so shuuuuussssshhhh) when we retired our black F4U:
(Image removed from quote.)
Or, if you were older perhaps this one:
(Image removed from quote.)

Pffft, the entire base from gate to beach was stacked with Tomcat buffs.  I could all the way here in LA hear the air escaping everyone on base as the Navy anounced dropping the F-14D program for the Super Hornet.   I wouldn't be surprised if any hornet that came within range of the base for the next two months got a radar lock warning.


I remember both those navy-blue aircraft (I wish more in the Navy were painted like them), including the Phantom... does that mean I'm officialy old at the age of 26?  I always wondered how the F14 got its unique paintjob though... wonder how you guys bribed Grumman into it, lol.  I kinda miss the Phantoms.  They were being finaly phased out when I was old enough to remember stuff.  Used to see at least one or a few really shining examples of the F-4 at every airshow.  Nowadays though, I honestly can't remember exactly when the last time I saw one, I know it was before I was old enough to buy my first camera though, I don't have a shot of one in my collection.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2010, 06:31:31 PM by Babalonian »
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Offline MORAY37

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Re: First flight for the Russian "F-22"
« Reply #64 on: February 02, 2010, 07:06:59 PM »
LOL.  Are you seriously heading into an argument that we're really to blame for terrorism because our military is too good?  That's a pretty big stretch.  Are you suggesting that al-Qiada and Hizballah and Amal and Hamas exist because we have F22s?  Would terrorism be less of a problem in the "real world" if we only flew F6F's instead?  How about Spads?  There is no point at which absolute superiority in any area is detremental, there are just those that think that being the best just isn't "fair".

I believe what he was getting to was that your enemy will attack you at the point he considers the weakest, not at the point he considers the strongest.  By having the strongest fighter force, you virtually ensure by definition, it will not be utilized, unless you force your enemy into such an encounter. 

His model wasn't flawless, but it was functional.
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Offline Strip

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Re: First flight for the Russian "F-22"
« Reply #65 on: February 03, 2010, 01:42:36 AM »
I have heard that the Star Wars program was dropped (a small part anyway) for reasons similar to this. Given the large borders of the U.S. it was realized that the Soviets could simply pre-position nuclear weapons near major installations. Thereby negating any advantage of having the system anyway, at least in some regard. I agree with Moray (gasp), you dont try to break castle walls, you go around them....

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Offline bozon

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Re: First flight for the Russian "F-22"
« Reply #66 on: February 03, 2010, 03:16:43 AM »
LOL.  Are you seriously heading into an argument that we're really to blame for terrorism because our military is too good?  That's a pretty big stretch.  Are you suggesting that al-Qiada and Hizballah and Amal and Hamas exist because we have F22s?  Would terrorism be less of a problem in the "real world" if we only flew F6F's instead?  How about Spads?  There is no point at which absolute superiority in any area is detremental, there are just those that think that being the best just isn't "fair".
No no. You missed it completely.
What I was saying was that once you have complete superiority, even better weapons will not make a difference - they will not be used anyway. The current status of the US is that no opposing force can challange it in anything but skirmish infantry combat. For this reason, the F22s will put out a good airshow, some calendars with pretty pictures and star in a Hollywood movie, but other wise rust. Terrorism is used against the US because military might does not come into play.

The US has such a huge advantage that the only defenses other nations can have are: 1)The bomb, 2)Terrorism. Iran is afraid of a US attack, what does it use as a counter threat? a nuclear project and big talk about a terror wave the world has never seen. The latter is a threat of the consequence AFTER they "loose the war". What do they use as a lever against Israel attacking their facilities? a threat of their Lebanese branch "Hizballa" pinching Israel northern cities. Better fighters will make zero difference. Strike planes? maybe some room for improvement. Interceptors? come on, sound more like government aid to the aircraft industries.
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Offline Plawranc

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Re: First flight for the Russian "F-22"
« Reply #67 on: April 13, 2010, 09:57:52 PM »
Russia, is just better in terms of aerial performance, USA has more toys, but the fact is. THey are designed to fight.

Lets face it guys, no matter how much chest thumping there is. Ground war with RUssia you will lose, airwar will be a tie. Naval will be MAD.

Nuclear war. Game over  :confused:

So..... there really is an art to keeping peace.
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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: First flight for the Russian "F-22"
« Reply #68 on: April 13, 2010, 10:34:49 PM »
Russia, is just better in terms of aerial performance, USA has more toys, but the fact is. THey are designed to fight.

Lets face it guys, no matter how much chest thumping there is. Ground war with RUssia you will lose, airwar will be a tie. Naval will be MAD.

Nuclear war. Game over  :confused:

So..... there really is an art to keeping peace.

Really, we'd lose a ground war with Russia?  Glad no one told that to the Afghani's during the the Soviet occupation, otherwise they would have just given up.


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Offline Tec

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Re: First flight for the Russian "F-22"
« Reply #69 on: April 13, 2010, 11:21:59 PM »
Naval will be MAD.

That's interesting, last I heard our navy was on par with the rest of the world COMBINED, and Russia's was rotting away in port.
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Offline Babalonian

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Re: First flight for the Russian "F-22"
« Reply #70 on: April 14, 2010, 06:41:18 PM »
Try trolling harder and don't get hints/tips from your grandfather this time. 

That's interesting, last I heard our navy was on par with the rest of the world COMBINED, and Russia's was rotting away in port.

What he said.  The only thing the Russian Navy has been on par with in the last couple of decades is the USN Mothball Fleet.  To their credit though, I hear they're finally investing in their navy again recently, but it's still at least twenty to thirty-years behind in the modern race for ocean supremacy.
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Offline Spikes

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Re: First flight for the Russian "F-22"
« Reply #71 on: April 14, 2010, 06:59:21 PM »
XF is the squadron identifier but we usually filed as Vandy X (based on our squadron callsign "Vanderbuilt").  BTW, no Tomcat guy ever elbowed in on a Hornet guy's spotlight as no Hornet guy ever had a spotlight shined on him, it was always on us   :lol

You may remember this one, it was painted by Grumman for us (illegally...so shuuuuussssshhhh) when we retired our black F4U:
(Image removed from quote.)
Or, if you were older perhaps this one:
(Image removed from quote.)
Wooo VX-4! 
Mace you are my hero! I love tomcats to DEATH!

Bye Bye Baby :(

Mace, I've always seen your avatar before...so you were an F14 aviator?



Russia, is just better in terms of aerial performance, USA has more toys, but the fact is. THey are designed to fight.

Lets face it guys, no matter how much chest thumping there is. Ground war with RUssia you will lose, airwar will be a tie. Naval will be MAD.

Nuclear war. Game over  :confused:

So..... there really is an art to keeping peace.
I lol'd. We have the best navy in the world. Ground war we would probably win...IMO our M1A2 is better then their T90. Air...well that'd be a fun (not really) battle, but I still think we have the upper hand.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2010, 07:08:27 PM by Spikes »
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Offline saantana

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Re: First flight for the Russian "F-22"
« Reply #72 on: April 16, 2010, 12:19:42 PM »
Really, we'd lose a ground war with Russia?  Glad no one told that to the Afghani's during the the Soviet occupation, otherwise they would have just given up.


ack-ack

Are you comparing U.S forces to fanatical mountain retards jumping around with ak-47's? He's talking about conventional warfare. At the point when your troops have to live in caves and their only belief system is dying in the name of god, you have already lost.
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Offline saantana

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Re: First flight for the Russian "F-22"
« Reply #73 on: April 16, 2010, 12:21:34 PM »
That's interesting, last I heard our navy was on par with the rest of the world COMBINED, and Russia's was rotting away in port.

Time for a reality check. Russia still fields more subs than the US. Which is not to say its 'better'. Just don't underestimate.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2010, 12:23:55 PM by saantana »
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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: First flight for the Russian "F-22"
« Reply #74 on: April 16, 2010, 12:31:01 PM »
Time for a reality check. Russia still fields more subs than the US. Which is not to say its 'better'. Just don't underestimate.

Out of those submarines, how many are able to be deployed?

The subs that remain in commission and theoretically operational are generally unable to deploy, due to lack of trained crews and lack of funds to buy fuel and stores. In general maintenance is minimal or nonexistent, and there are no funds to conduct much-needed overhauls, even for major fleet units. Many ships have been abandoned when repairs or refits came due.

Having a large navy on paper is worthless when most of the ships aren't able to deploy in real life.


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