Author Topic: Ain't nothin like a Jeep  (Read 14431 times)

Offline JunkyII

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Re: Ain't nothin like a Jeep
« Reply #270 on: April 10, 2010, 07:56:17 AM »
Come on Widewing, Did yall really need 3 Kegs :D
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Offline Widewing

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Re: Ain't nothin like a Jeep
« Reply #271 on: April 11, 2010, 12:44:05 AM »
You know, Project JK headquarters is in southern California. During the recent Easter Safari at Moab, it snowed one day. Really didn't stick much, but the SoCal guys were freaking out according to posts on their forum (I was not there, I was down in Arizona at the end of that week).

What I have discovered is that most four wheelers from warmer states are absolutely clueless on how to configure their rigs for snow. For those of us who have to drive in deep snow just to get to work, it's remarkable to watch video of these guys looking foolish in snow.

I'll cite two examples.

A couple of weeks ago, SpeedTV ran an episode of Dangerous Drives. This one was titled, "Extreme Off Roading". This show always plays up any danger, making it sound like borderline suicide. This show focused on AEV Jeeps (two modded JK Unlimited types, a TJ based Brute running 38" rubber, and one Land Rover Disco. They were going to test their latest JK components by running some trails in Moab. However, they selected trails typically rated as a 3 or 4. In short, trails you could easily run in a stock Wrangler or Hummer H3 (Xterras and FJ Cruisers would have issues with some of the obstacles due to approach and departure angles). You can rent Jeeps at Moab, specifically for driving trails of that type.

Anyway, they had some snow in the higher elevations. In some cases, 12" to 18" deep. Now, where I live, this is not considered unusual. However, some of the guys doing the driving are from SoCal of Arizona. They set off on their journey and as they drove out of the valley, they came across their first real obstacle. A mild ledge, about 4 feet high, at just about a 60% grade. Adding to this was a light coating of snow. It took several tries to get the AEV Brute up the onto the ledge. The Disco had no chance and had to winched up. One of the Jeeps needed a pull as well. However, the second JK was driven by a guy from Montana. He drove up and over without the slightest drama. This was a clue as to what was coming.

Up on the rim road, they ran into fresh snow of the depth defined above. Once the snow was deeper than 12", they began having trouble. With the Brute breaking trail, they struggled. Eventually, the Brute was forced to bullrush the snow. Backing up, running ahead until it bogged. Back up again as repeat a few hundred times. Honestly, it was pathetic.

Second example. JKOwners.com has posted videos where you can see their TV guys out wheeling in snow. They are not having an easy time of it.

What both examples show is three very common errors.
1) Inappropriate tires. Virtually all are running Mud/Terrain tires designed for mud or slick rock. With huge lug treads, they throw a lot of snow around, but they never get a good bite. These tires generally lack sipping, which is critical for snow and ice traction.
2) They air down. In the case of the JKOwners, they aired down to less than 10 psi. In snow less than 3 feet deep, airing down is a mistake. A big mistake. You don't what flotation. You don't want to increase you tire's section width. Run normal street pressure, because you want to minimize resistance (when pushing through snow) and you want to maximize ground pressure, which maximizes mechanical friction, and as a result; maximizes bite.
3) They run in low range in first or second gear. This limits your momentum, and momentum is important for breaking trail. It also shuts off the traction control. Excessive tire spinning is not a good thing in snow. It generates heat. Heat melts the snow as it packs. This mean creating water, and nothing is slicker than wet snow or ice.

Last winter, we went wheeling in the pine barrens of eastern Long Island after a true blizzard. There was more than two feet of snow on the fire roads and trails. I was running 32/10.50-17 (255/75-17) severe winter service rated tires. Tire pressure was dialed in at 37 psi. My JK never bogged down nor got stuck. However, another driver in a 2006 LJ Rubicon, repeatedly got into trouble. Why? He aired down his 33/12.50-15 Mud/Terrains. Wide, aggressive tires don't push through snow easily, and without sipping, his ability to get a good bite in the snow was nonexistent. He could not break trail as he was constantly losing headway. I drove around him and led the small caravan of Jeeps over 7 miles in bumper high snow, until we literally ran out of virgin trails. Later, after a 17" snow, I took my wife down to the large beach parking lot and allowed her to drive around in the deep snow. Even a novice can manage not to get stuck if the vehicle is configured for the conditions. That means the proper tires (the wrong tires can sabotage the very best vehicle in snow) and proper technique. This applies to any vehicle, be it a modded-out 4x4 or a common front drive sedan.

A significant number of experienced, dedicated rock crawlers are completely baffled by even a moderate snow fall. Now that winter is over, I realize that I'm going to miss the snow....


My regards,

Widewing
« Last Edit: April 11, 2010, 12:48:17 AM by Widewing »
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline tassos

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Re: Ain't nothin like a Jeep
« Reply #272 on: April 11, 2010, 04:26:22 AM »
Do you got those Kind of Jeep`s in youre Country?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqaK9l9yyQE&feature=related
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Offline RichardDarkwood

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Re: Ain't nothin like a Jeep
« Reply #273 on: April 11, 2010, 09:00:36 AM »
Widewing,

I saw that episode of dangerous drives your referring to. I felt they were stressing safety more than anything. They didn't have to drive that brute up that ledge to use for a anchor but it was the safest thing to do and not break anything at the start of a week long trek.




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Offline RTHolmes

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Re: Ain't nothin like a Jeep
« Reply #274 on: April 11, 2010, 09:03:49 AM »
did jeeps ever compete in the Paris-Dakar? dont remember ever seeing any.
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Offline Widewing

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Re: Ain't nothin like a Jeep
« Reply #275 on: April 11, 2010, 09:58:12 AM »
Widewing,

I saw that episode of dangerous drives your referring to. I felt they were stressing safety more than anything. They didn't have to drive that brute up that ledge to use for a anchor but it was the safest thing to do and not break anything at the start of a week long trek.

Todd

Safety... There was no real danger. The entire show exaggerated danger to the point of comedy. I've driven my wife's Grand Vitara through snow as deep as they were driving through up on the rim road. Again, wrong tires and wrong technique.


My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline RipChord929

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Re: Ain't nothin like a Jeep
« Reply #276 on: April 11, 2010, 10:27:49 AM »
did jeeps ever compete in the Paris-Dakar? dont remember ever seeing any.

You do have a good point about that RT, and ya never see them in the Baha Races either.. Wrong kind of event I think!
Jeeps have never been about getting to the finish line first, they are more about getting 'there', (wherever it is) at all!
If a jeep was entered in the PD rally, it would make the trip, no doubt... First place, probably not, lol...
But every year there are thousands of ridgelines, and deep dark valleys, where a wheeled vehicle has never been..
Odd's are 99.9% that the first vehicle to ever get there, or ever will get there, is a Jeep..
If ya think about it, thats a whole lot of 1st's!

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Offline RTHolmes

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Re: Ain't nothin like a Jeep
« Reply #277 on: April 11, 2010, 11:06:02 AM »
the paris-dakar is a 6,000mile endurance race over very rough terrain, sounds like the perfect test of an offroader to me.
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Offline WWhiskey

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Re: Ain't nothin like a Jeep
« Reply #278 on: April 11, 2010, 11:06:46 AM »
the paris-dakar is a 6,000mile endurance race over very rough terrain, sounds like the perfect test of an offroader to me.
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Offline JunkyII

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Re: Ain't nothin like a Jeep
« Reply #279 on: April 11, 2010, 01:13:56 PM »
the paris-dakar is a 6,000mile endurance race over very rough terrain, sounds like the perfect test of an offroader to me.
Too easy :aok
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Offline Widewing

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Re: Ain't nothin like a Jeep
« Reply #280 on: April 11, 2010, 06:25:36 PM »
the paris-dakar is a 6,000mile endurance race over very rough terrain, sounds like the perfect test of an offroader to me.

You have to understand that Paris-Dakar is a speed event. You won't see Wranglers or Defenders in events of this type. Where you will find Jeeps and Defenders is places the Paris-Dakar racers couldn't go with being parachuted in....


My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Widewing

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Re: Ain't nothin like a Jeep
« Reply #281 on: April 11, 2010, 06:29:18 PM »
We removed the Freedom top today and installed the Trektop (specialized soft top). Next weekend I'll swap the winter tires for my 33" Cooper Mud/Terrains. Then, we'll be ready for summer.


My regards,

Widewing



My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline JunkyII

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Re: Ain't nothin like a Jeep
« Reply #282 on: April 11, 2010, 06:34:41 PM »
My bud just got a silver 08 Sahara.......Its SWEET, the interior of the Wranglers has come a LONG way :aok
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Offline redwing7

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Re: Ain't nothin like a Jeep
« Reply #283 on: April 11, 2010, 06:40:39 PM »
Wrangler just made the 10 worst made vehicles on the road list, the other 9 were big three vehicles as well. :aok
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Offline Widewing

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Re: Ain't nothin like a Jeep
« Reply #284 on: April 11, 2010, 10:26:14 PM »
Wrangler just made the 10 worst made vehicles on the road list, the other 9 were big three vehicles as well. :aok

Forbes based their article on Consumer Reports, and these guys have never liked the Wrangler... They're dullards. Joy to them is a Camry on the way to bingo. I replied to the article on Forbes....


"Consumer Reports has never liked the Jeep Wrangler. They don't understand it. They cannot relate to it. CR likes dull sedans. Indeed, they complain endlessly about the flaws of the Wrangler. Yet, Jeep sells every one they build.

The Wrangler is one of very few vehicles that does not sacrifice off road performance for on the road attributes. Owner loyalty is among the best in the business. Few, if any other vehicles offer the resale value of a Wrangler. Few vehicles have a large dedicated enthusiast community as does the Wrangler.

I own a two year-old Wrangler. It's reliability has been excellent. I routinely get 25 mpg on the highway, substantially better that EPA estimates. When we found ourselves looking at 27" of snow, almost nothing could move. Except, that is, the Jeep. When we want to head out into difficult terrain, what would we drive? A RAV4? How about a Highlander? No chance.. These SUVs would require airlifting to get into the back country of Arizona or Utah. Toyota's FJ Cruiser is so compromised towards being road friendly, that it can't compete with the Wrangler. Likewise for the 4Runner and Nissan Xterra. All of these are better on paved roads. Which is the point. Wranglers are designed to use paved roads only to get them to where they excel... Difficult terrain.

Those who prefer the mind-numbing boredom of a Camry or Accord will never appreciate the value and enjoyment of a Wrangler. They'll never begin to understand that when the pavement ends, "there ain't nothin' like a Jeep."


My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.