Author Topic: Perking Spit 16  (Read 12518 times)

Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Perking Spit 16
« Reply #255 on: April 28, 2010, 12:35:20 AM »
Oh come on!!
Surely you can use more brain cells and generate a worthwhile reply!
Seriously - you consider the two little gems above input into a discussion?

The 109K4 carries a devastating 30mm Mk 108 cannons (65 rounds) mounted to fire through the propeller spinner.
Standard to the 190A5 are a pair of cowl mounted 7.9mm MG17's with 900 rounds/gun.

Where's the convergence?
Reply or don't reply, but please add something of worth and don't embarrass yourselves any further - and buy a new book of "witty remarks".

Nose mounted guns won't require convergence but if they also have wing mounted guns, those will have to converge.

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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Perking Spit 16
« Reply #256 on: April 28, 2010, 12:37:37 AM »
Spitfires are not noobish, they can do everything pretty well, but the skill needed to fly them properly is no less than any other aircraft. In fact I found the F4U easier than the Spitfire lol. And yet they are regarded as "Pro" rides.

Please, we fly what we want and if we win? then you fought the wrong fight.

No, with the exception of the Spitfire Mk XIV, the Spitfires are a very forgiving aircraft, much more so than any of the Corsairs.  The Spitfire is so forgiving that you can screw up without paying that much of a penalty for it.  No other aircraft in the plane set is as forgiving to fly, don't delude yourself into thinking otherwise.


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Offline Glasses

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Re: Perking Spit 16
« Reply #257 on: April 28, 2010, 01:30:40 AM »
Oh come on!!
Surely you can use more brain cells and generate a worthwhile reply!
Seriously - you consider the two little gems above input into a discussion?

The 109K4 carries a devastating 30mm Mk 108 cannons (65 rounds) mounted to fire through the propeller spinner.
Standard to the 190A5 are a pair of cowl mounted 7.9mm MG17's with 900 rounds/gun.

Where's the convergence?
Reply or don't reply, but please add something of worth and don't embarrass yourselves any further - and buy a new book of "witty remarks".



Yeah the 30mm cannon sure is lasertastic  with the muzzle velocity of an anemic old man with Lou Gerick's disease. A maneuvering fighter is even a challenge to hit at D0 let alone at d200 or greater , since the bullets  you fire as soon as they leave the muzzle they drop and scatter requiring at least 10 to 15 bullets per target and that is if the dude is a "marksman" as far as the world of cartoon computer generated fighters is concerned.

The 20mms in the wing roots of the 190s do require convergence and their effective range is less than 200y try to fire anything further away   from that distance and you might as well throw a rock at the guy in front. Not only that but they don't have one quarter the muzzle velocity or the damage a single hispano makes. Deflection shooting near point blank range using the MG151s is nearly impossible , let alone the forward visibility in the 190s which doesn't let you at all  see what's below the cowling, the  hispano however  if you have the gun sight 1/3 above the center-line of the gunsight,  the bullets will travel within your line of sight making deflection shooting much much much less of an effort in a Hispano equipped plane than any German one. I've done high deflection shooting above D600 D400 in a hispano plane with little to no effort impacting the target usually ripping something off by the 6 or 7 bullets that impacts,pulling little to no lead. The German guns where you aim is not necessarily where they will fall even at D200 they're frustratingly inaccurate, I don't know whether that's historically precise or not but the assessment that the 109 and 190 have Laser weapons  a la Spitfire is frankly preposterous even with a center-line MG151.

IDC either way  whether they perk it or not all I know is when I kill some dweeb flying a Spit XVI it gives me in an A8 a bunch of perks and if they kill me  it's supposed to be that way ( in game)  the 190A8 maneuvers like a freight truck. Of course some of this can be alleviated by an 190A9 but I won't hold my breath. To the displeasure of some.

Seriously you're comparing the 7mm machine guns  in the 190 and saying they do any amount of damage except maybe if the other person has his speakers headset turned all the way  up that will damage their ear drums,even the 13mm cowling guns are nothing other than extra weight I have to carry around. I generally just fire off all the ammo to make my plane somewhat lighter.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2010, 02:17:23 AM by Glasses »

Offline Karnak

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Re: Perking Spit 16
« Reply #258 on: April 28, 2010, 02:35:29 AM »
Hey now, I've killed a B-26 with just the 13mm on the Fw190D-9.  Once.
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Offline Krusty

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Re: Perking Spit 16
« Reply #259 on: April 28, 2010, 02:42:11 AM »
All the disparaging comments about MG151/20 are just wrong. I just wanted to add that. I have regularly hit targets with ease out to 400 yards, lead shots, deflection shooting.... If you can't kill with them I blame you, not the gun.

Offline Glasses

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Re: Perking Spit 16
« Reply #260 on: April 28, 2010, 02:42:30 AM »
Hey now, I've killed a B-26 with just the 13mm on the Fw190D-9.  Once.


So you annoyed the bomber to death and it decided to end his suffering?  :D

Offline Krusty

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Re: Perking Spit 16
« Reply #261 on: April 28, 2010, 02:42:55 AM »
EDIT: Forum burp, double post, but let me add that the cowl guns on the 190s are worth using. Especially the MG131s. I got an 8-kill sortie in a G-14 once, finished off the 7th and killed the 8th with MG131s only. Same goes for the nose guns on Ki-84, the 50cals on a spit16, the C202's near-50cal nose guns, the P-39Q's 2x50cal package.....

You're making claims that are wrong. You wanna say "I never use them" fine, but don't say "they don't work" -- just because you don't use 'em doesn't mean they don't work.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2010, 02:49:06 AM by Krusty »

Offline Glasses

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Re: Perking Spit 16
« Reply #262 on: April 28, 2010, 02:47:15 AM »
All the disparaging comments about MG151/20 are just wrong. I just wanted to add that. I have regularly hit targets with ease out to 400 yards (many cases 600-800, but using 400 as a "kill zone" range...), lead shots, deflection shooting.... If you can't kill with them I blame you, not the gun.


I haven't said I can't or couldn't I have said that making shots at these ranges regularly is much more of an effort comparatively to a Hispano equipped plane. 200-400y range seems fairly accurate. But to ensure that you will turn the target into ground meat and  aluminum confetti you need to be below or within the 200y range mark.

Offline Krusty

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Re: Perking Spit 16
« Reply #263 on: April 28, 2010, 02:51:06 AM »
I haven't said I can't or couldn't I have said that making shots at these ranges regularly is much more of an effort comparatively

You know, reading through it that is NOT how it came across. Came across totally different. Just FYI. Might want to be careful about trashing the MG151s (or, when seeming to). They're not all that bad.

Offline Karnak

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Re: Perking Spit 16
« Reply #264 on: April 28, 2010, 02:53:50 AM »

So you annoyed the bomber to death and it decided to end his suffering?  :D
Well, I actually came in fast and was marvelously accurate (by my standards) and drilled his right wing the whole way in and it came off just as I passed.  This was back in AH1 before formations were added to the game.

I have done the "annoy the target to death" with other fighters though.
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Offline Glasses

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Re: Perking Spit 16
« Reply #265 on: April 28, 2010, 03:02:12 AM »
You know, reading through it that is NOT how it came across. Came across totally different. Just FYI. Might want to be careful about trashing the MG151s (or, when seeming to). They're not all that bad.

Comparatively speaking against the Hispano it is just that like night and day. It doesn't mean that I can't hit or make kills in it. It's just that coming from an MG151 plane and shooting in a Tempest ,Typh, Spit ,F4U1C is merely child's play. Using Hyperbole and sarcasm to make my point clear.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2010, 03:07:23 AM by Glasses »

Offline Karnak

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Re: Perking Spit 16
« Reply #266 on: April 28, 2010, 03:13:01 AM »
I don't find the difference between the Hispano II and the MG151/20, Ho-5 or Type 99-II all that bad.  The Hispano V is between the two.

The 30mm Mk108 is a completely different story though.  It shares its ballistic properties with the MG/FF and Type 99-Is
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Offline Glasses

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Re: Perking Spit 16
« Reply #267 on: April 28, 2010, 03:15:55 AM »
Well, I actually came in fast and was marvelously accurate (by my standards) and drilled his right wing the whole way in and it came off just as I passed.  This was back in AH1 before formations were added to the game.

I have done the "annoy the target to death" with other fighters though.

Good times,good times.

Offline grizz441

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Re: Perking Spit 16
« Reply #268 on: April 28, 2010, 01:51:54 PM »


You have to lead 1.2 times further with 151/20s than Hispanos. Hispano's shoot straighter also.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2010, 01:56:19 PM by grizz441 »

Offline PJ_Godzilla

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Re: Perking Spit 16
« Reply #269 on: April 28, 2010, 01:56:33 PM »
(Image removed from quote.)

You have to lead 18% further with 151/20s than Hispanos. Hispano's shoot straighter also.

Well, thanks for contaminating the discussion with facts. The shocker to me is the Mk103's muzzle velocity. It's the same as the Hispano's.
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