Maneuvering flaps on the P38

[Traveler]

The flaps are not modeled correctly for the P38 series.  AAF 51-127-1 show the airspeeds and degrees of flap that could be used on the P38, including maneuvering flap or combat flaps that could be use at airspeeds up to 250 MPH.  The first 50% or ½ flaps was considered maneuvering flaps.  The current model has the flaps settings at 20% increments or 5 notches of flap represent full flaps .   With the current model you can’t set ½ or 50% flaps.  You can set flaps at 250MPH but the percentage of flaps is not modeled correctly.

The p38 flaps were actuated with a handle that set the flaps in motion via hydro and electric pump.  The motor was started and stopped by that handle so the pilot could set any value of flap he wished to.  There was a ident stop for ½ flap to help the pilot quickly set combat flaps.

Presently in the current P38 model we are left with just  a 40% setting and thus lose the benefit of that additional 10% in lift and reduced stall speed .  The first ½ flap setting in the P38 provided additional lift and reduced stall speed.  The current flap setting does not model the combat flaps setting correctly.

If the P38 aircraft are modeled correctly then the inability to set combat flaps at 50% puts the P38 driver at a disadvantage.   

[Guppy35]

You sure about that?

[Traveler]

You sure about that?

Yes, check out AAF 51-127-1 its for the entire P38 line and includes specifics for each model.  The doucment is available online : http://aafcollection.info/items/list.php?pkg=ls!title!!108!2!title!dn!20#itm108

Also and I'm not to sure anything could be done about it, right now the flaps which can be extended at 250MPH automaticly retract at 250.0001 MPH.  I'd like to see perhaps overspeeds handeled as it is with the gear .  in an over speed with the gear the gear doesn't automaticly come up.   either the pilots raises the gear or the gear is damaged.  I'd like to see the same thing for the flaps.

[Guppy35]

Search for the 38 Flap threads.  HTC and company have answered this stuff already I believe.

[Guppy35]

how much flap do you think 50% is on the 38?  How many degrees of flap?


Edited to add:  Go offline and put down that first notch of flaps.  Tell me how many degrees you think that is.  Then go look up how many degrees of flap, maneuvering or 'combat' flaps are.

[Traveler]

how much flap do you think 50% is on the 38?  How many degrees of flap?


Edited to add:  Go offline and put down that first notch of flaps.  Tell me how many degrees you think that is.  Then go look up how many degrees of flap, maneuvering or 'combat' flaps are.

Actually there were only three flap settings  Flaps up, 1/2 flap and flaps down.

I have no idea what percentage of flap those settings equate to.   But in AH on the P38 you can hit the Q key five times to lower the flaps 100% down,  so I"m guessing that each time you hit the Q key that represents 20%.  5 x 20 = 100.


Perhaps someone from Hitech Creations can answer that question.  I have no idea.

[AWwrgwy]

Perhaps you're better off with the way things are rather than up-50%-100%.

Without looking, I do not know what percentage 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 notches of flaps are other than 5 being 100%.

Maybe be careful what you wish for.



wrongway

[Traveler]

Perhaps you're better off with the way things are rather than up-50%-100%.

Without looking, I do not know what percentage 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 notches of flaps are other than 5 being 100%.

Maybe be careful what you wish for.



wrongway

I’m wishing for historical accuracy with the maneuvering flaps.  Maneuvering flaps were set at the ½ flaps setting in the P38.  The P38 had three flap settings up, ½, down.   The pilot had the ability to start and stop the flap motor and because of that could effectively set the flaps at any position between 0% and 100% just by starting and stopping the motor.  The ½ flap was indicated by an ident on the control so the pilot could select combat flap with looking and the flaps would run out to ½ flaps.

The question is in AH what is ½ flaps.   If 100% is 5 clicks of the Q key with each click equal to 20% then the best you can get to ½ flaps is 40%.    Again it’s a model that is not accurate.

[1Boner]

The flaps are not modeled correctly for the P38 series.  AAF 51-127-1 show the airspeeds and degrees of flap that could be used on the P38, including maneuvering flap or combat flaps that could be use at airspeeds up to 250 MPH.  The first 50% or ½ flaps was considered maneuvering flaps.  The current model has the flaps settings at 20% increments or 5 notches of flap represent full flaps .   With the current model you can’t set ½ or 50% flaps.  You can set flaps at 250MPH but the percentage of flaps is not modeled correctly.

The p38 flaps were actuated with a handle that set the flaps in motion via hydro and electric pump.  The motor was started and stopped by that handle so the pilot could set any value of flap he wished to.  There was a ident stop for ½ flap to help the pilot quickly set combat flaps.

Presently in the current P38 model we are left with just  a 40% setting and thus lose the benefit of that additional 10% in lift and reduced stall speed .  The first ½ flap setting in the P38 provided additional lift and reduced stall speed.  The current flap setting does not model the combat flaps setting correctly.

If the P38 aircraft are modeled correctly then the inability to set combat flaps at 50% puts the P38 driver at a disadvantage.   

[Traveler]

Do you have something constructive to add to the discussion or do you just limit yourself to personal attacks?

[FLS]

It's probably a coding issue. How do you code the flaps for every increment between 0 and 100 percent? Do you only have 0, 50 and 100 percent when the A/C could set any intermediate setting? I'm guessing you would prefer 4 positions to get 50 percent instead of 5 positions. But maybe you're taking the POH too literally when it says that there was no drag added up to 50 percent, just increased lift, since that is aerodynamically impossible. Maybe the 5 positions AH has is a better compromise with better performance and you just imagine it would be better at 50 percent. All flap settings increase lift and reduce stall speed and all flap settings increase drag.

[1Boner]

Do you have something constructive to add to the discussion or do you just limit yourself to personal attacks?

Stop, please!! you're killin me!

Personal attacks??

[Guppy35]

Combat flaps gave the 38 8 degrees of flap and could be deployed at 250.  That's not much flap, but enough to give it some additional turning ability.  Keep in mind the dive flap on the late J and L only opened to 35 degrees.

I think you are reading the info to imply a greater amount of flap then we have already.  The combat flaps we have in the cartoon 38s are set at that degree of flap from what I can tell.

Basically what it comes down to is 8 degree of flap or less on the Combat flaps

[FLS]

Typically maneuver flaps are the first notch for lower stall speed with minimal added drag. The P-38 POH does state that maneuver flaps are at 50%.

[Raptor]

You are suggesting that you want HTC to model it so that the P38 only had 3 options. Up, 50%, Full down.
Then you go on to say that the Pilot had the option to stop the motor so it would set the flaps at , say 25%. Once HTC changed it to the 3 flap setting you describe, would you whine that the pilots could choose to set the flaps to 25% or 75%...

Sounds like HiTech's current modelling is the best compromise considering we do not have switches to motors at our computers we can tell when to stop.